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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's Jeanne Steinem my neighbors first

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summer I remind you that the para cast

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is brought to you this week by

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audible.com the internet's leading

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provider of audiobooks with more than

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85,000 downloadable titles across all

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types of literature including fiction

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nonfiction and periodicals for free

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audio book of your choice go to

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audiblepodcast.com/tekzilla nan the

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power cast the people our forum still

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can't stop talking about him but more to

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the point yeah more to the point the

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previous week we had none other than

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Jerome Clark esteemed UFO historian and

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how many messages have we get about him

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in our forms nary a one not even that

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no one even started a topic for him and

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that's unfortunate because this guy is

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so knowledgeable about the history of

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UFO research really smart guy somebody

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I've known for many many years no

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response but Aaron Kaplan the whacky

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kind of guy and I guess he's serious

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they can't stop talking about seriously

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wacky yeah you kind of wonder if he was

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just fooling us or he had nothing better

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to do with his retirement so he decided

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to put this crazy book together and he

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got every crazy rumor on the planet I

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can't think of any rumor he didn't have

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he had every crazy one on the planet

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Annika did he mentioned the JFK

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assassination I think he did didn't he

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the JFK assassination boy that's an

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interesting question you know what out

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of sight out of mind

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I don't remember let's talk about

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something a little bit more serious they

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have a copy of the October issue of

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MUFON Journal the MUFON UFO journal now

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I understand we had a discussion with aj

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gevaerd where he says that the brazilian

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UFO magazine is the longest surviving

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UFO magazine on the planet

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and it's been around for more than 30

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years but I'm looking here at MUFON

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Journal there have been 522 issues if

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we're assuming 12 a year that's what 50

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years hmm okay getting close yeah now

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there's an article from Clifford Clift

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who's the international director and

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he's someone who's been on the power

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cast he seems like a decent guy he's

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more of a businessman than a researcher

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however and he says in his headline in

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this issue is it possible were in the

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midst of a UFO flap with a big question

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mark and here's why he says that he said

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August was a busy month for UFO

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sightings we had 1013 sighting reports

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more than doubling our average of 500 a

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month now he says it might be a computer

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glitch because they've been revising

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their computer system but I don't know

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that sounds interesting if you heard any

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greater influx of UFO reports in your

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experience well yeah it seems like we've

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been in the midst of a quiet but very

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very steady flap of activity since late

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June early July okay so it's not

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computer glitch no not at all I've

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noticed quite enough taken reports

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interestingly enough the filers files

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and other reporting services Peter

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Davenport and others have have also been

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talking about a a fairly sizable

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increase in reports here since about you

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know early to mid summer now another

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point is that the media they say has

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been very active in covering UFO events

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for example the 2011 MUFON symposium

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they had 700 people attending of which

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only 200 were MUFON members now let's

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look at these numbers and the reason I

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want to mention this is because like all

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magazines that go out by what they call

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second-class mail they have to provide

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what they call an ownership management

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and circulation report that report shows

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they've got a circulation of slightly

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over 2,000 which means therefore that

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MUFON has about 2,000 members I guess

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that's not so big in the scheme of

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things although it's about average for a

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UFO Club but if they're getting hundreds

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of people who aren't members of the

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organization that's significant if the

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media is covering those events that's

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also very significant but the real

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question is MUFON has been around for

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what 50 years they can't get more than

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2,000 members I used to have more didn't

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they yes they had probably four or five

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times that number at their height so

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what is it people don't want to join UFO

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clubs these days well I think a lot of

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the membership you know to be frank

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about it is dining off and I don't think

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the kids are really that interested in

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being members of any sort of club or

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organization that would have them as one

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just like me well I also like to repeat

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what Groucho Marx once said I would

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never join a club that would have me as

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a member but I did join MUFON basically

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to get the newsletter to get the

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information because there's a lot of

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sighting information there sometimes

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some basic opinions sometimes you wonder

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about some of those opinions but at

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least it seems they're making an effort

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they're trying but as you say people

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today don't want to join UFO clubs don't

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listen to the shows we have a great

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audience a lot will participate in our

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forums and when we revise our forum

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which we're going to do in the very near

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future we're going to have a major

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revision to our forums I bet we'll have

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more members but yeah but we're signing

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them up every day yes we are you know we

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get more and more participation and time

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as you look at those forums and you

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wonder this is a forum about the

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paranormal but some of the subjects they

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talk about have nothing to do with that

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like there's one called the return of

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birthers and the birther movement of

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course is that movement where people are

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saying or suggesting that President

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Obama was not born in the United States

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at his birth certificate both versions

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are short for on the long form were fake

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so that's a big discussion we have you

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know general discussions about

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conspiracy theories like 9/11 very

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popular we always talk about 9/11 so

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that's another popular conspiracy theory

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I like that thread what was that blonde

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woman that had had some announcement

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last

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shir and everybody was all enamored with

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her Facebook picture and then somebody

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dug up a clip of her pole dancing

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remember that well you can't be a pole

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dancer anymore you know that's been and

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be taken seriously yeah definitely not

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definitely not so pole dancing is

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unacceptable although I can imagine you

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know a college girl might do that to get

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a decent paycheck look at student loans

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we have this big problem now this big

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tragedy about student loans students are

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inundated with those expenses they

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either have to go the fickle bankrupt

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they can't stop those expenses you know

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that's one of the things it isn't

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discharged in bankruptcy

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well well Jean look at it this way I

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mean they spend all this money and

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somehow through loans and and their

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parents to get a real good quality

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education and what happens when they get

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out of school they can't get a job

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before they go back to live with their

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parents okay my sudden didn't do that he

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graduated to college and he decided you

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know what I don't want to be here with

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my parents I'm gonna go to Spain which

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is what he did so I don't know what to

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say about that so I'm not gonna touch

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that one Jane you won't touch that huh

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not with a ten-foot pole or a 18 foot

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pole

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okay well you know I'm not gonna say

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look let's focus on some of the more

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unusual aspects today of UFO field and

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the guest is Norio Hayakawa a friend of

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yours can you tell us more about him

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well you know I've known Oreo for years

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and years and years and he's one of

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these very interesting guys that have

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been around in the field since the late

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70s early 80s is when I think he really

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got his start and one of the things that

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he's been really focusing on the last

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well geez since the late eighties is the

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whole Dulce base mystery and of course

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norio it's now been almost three years

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was the one that put together a small

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little gathering in Dulce for the

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Hickory Apache basically to find out you

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know

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what they thought about some of these

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rumors and collect some stories and give

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them a forum to present their particular

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personal experiences they're living near

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dulce or in dulce and the turnout was so

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massive the fire marshal had to shut the

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event down we had to move it next door

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because there was nowhere near enough

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room for all the people that showed up

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and no I think it's gonna surprise a lot

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of people today with some of the results

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of his particular very intensive

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investigation of the dulce case and I

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think we're gonna we're gonna learn

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something okay

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Dulce New Mexico something mysterious

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going on or what with Nouriel Hayakawa

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as you know the podcast is brought to

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i web.com that's iWeb comm making the

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right decisions is a challenge to

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investors are we going to see economic

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growth slide into a recession or at

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worst depression hi Ted Anderson for

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Midas resources we all know when a

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company actually responsibly divesting

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ourselves and a move towards safety is

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prudent when the market becomes volatile

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US Treasuries are a safe haven but what

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do you do when the US government

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overextends itself and spends beyond its

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means many investors are turning toward

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gold is a common-sense alternative to

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traditional paper investments -

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resources has put together a powerful

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book titled 10 reasons to own gold

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discussing costs benefits risks

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featuring full-color illustrations

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weights and measures the book is free

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it's true total government control of

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electricity in the name of smart grid

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technology is coming number three in

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some areas of the country the power grid

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is dangerously overloaded and now a new

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socialist legislation is only

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compounding the problem number four

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dangerous weather is always a threat to

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reduce the number severity and duration

290
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[Music]

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

312
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:07,610
comment or question about the para cast

313
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:12,050
send it to news at the para cast com

314
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:16,690
that's Muse at the para cast dot-com and

315
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:19,310
if you'd like to catch up on past

316
00:14:25,510 --> 00:14:22,490
episodes we have hundreds of shows for

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you to download direct from the para

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cast com

319
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:32,240
that's the para cast dot-com or check us

320
00:14:40,270 --> 00:14:37,040
out at itunes well welcome to the para

321
00:14:43,390 --> 00:14:40,280
cast with Jean and Chris this week we're

322
00:14:46,030 --> 00:14:43,400
really happy to have Norio Hayakawa with

323
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:46,040
us for his first appearance here on the

324
00:14:51,490 --> 00:14:48,770
para cast and first of all Nuria welcome

325
00:14:54,910 --> 00:14:51,500
to the show oh thank you very much Chris

326
00:14:57,790 --> 00:14:54,920
and Jean for having me on and we were

327
00:14:58,720 --> 00:14:57,800
talking just briefly before we had you

328
00:15:02,170 --> 00:14:58,730
on here

329
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,180
about your many years of working in the

330
00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:05,120
Dulce New Mexico area trying to dig into

331
00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:06,830
the whole underground base scenario

332
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:09,830
there and how that you're probably one

333
00:15:13,690 --> 00:15:11,570
of the most knowledgeable people that I

334
00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:13,700
know concerning that particular mystery

335
00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:15,830
there and that is only part of the work

336
00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:17,720
that you've done you've actually done

337
00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:19,190
quite a bit of investigative work over

338
00:15:21,730 --> 00:15:20,390
the years you've been in the field for

339
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:21,740
quite some time once you give us a

340
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:22,910
little background and how you got

341
00:15:29,230 --> 00:15:25,670
involved in UFOs well first of all I'm

342
00:15:33,250 --> 00:15:29,240
not really an expert on the dulcet

343
00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:33,260
situation but I have researched it for

344
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:36,710
many years and of course I've been there

345
00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:41,650
many many times in the past since around

346
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:45,020
1990 you were arrested I think one of

347
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:46,970
your first trips weren't you yes that

348
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:50,320
was yes that was in 1990 but I actually

349
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:52,880
started getting information about both

350
00:15:59,770 --> 00:15:57,410
say in around the 1987 then of course

351
00:16:03,640 --> 00:15:59,780
you know from there on I read many

352
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:03,650
articles and so on and and then I went

353
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:06,290
there for the first time in 1990 but

354
00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:09,410
even now I am involved in research

355
00:16:15,079 --> 00:16:12,950
especially since I live closer to that

356
00:16:18,259 --> 00:16:15,089
place than ever before you know

357
00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:18,269
I live in New Mexico's Rio Rancho which

358
00:16:26,269 --> 00:16:20,699
is right next to Albuquerque and Rio

359
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:26,279
Rancho is about two hours 3/4 hours to a

360
00:16:34,549 --> 00:16:30,720
you know two hour 45 minutes away so I

361
00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:34,559
can go there anytime I want to and I've

362
00:16:40,429 --> 00:16:36,689
been there many times as recently as

363
00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:40,439
just you know a couple of months ago so

364
00:16:48,049 --> 00:16:42,660
yes I've been doing that for many years

365
00:16:52,129 --> 00:16:48,059
but my main focus before this was of

366
00:16:55,429 --> 00:16:52,139
course the notorious area 51 in Nevada

367
00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:55,439
which I have actually investigated and

368
00:16:59,929 --> 00:16:57,720
been there many many times just around

369
00:17:02,420 --> 00:16:59,939
the same time that I got started with

370
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:02,430
the Dulce research in fact this is

371
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:04,799
something really strange icarus that

372
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:08,730
both area 51 and Dolson became a hot

373
00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:14,970
topic already in 1987 when actually John

374
00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:19,289
Lear started writing a hypothesis about

375
00:17:26,329 --> 00:17:22,980
both of these places and where John Lear

376
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:26,339
got all this information was he got this

377
00:17:33,049 --> 00:17:29,850
information from other sources you know

378
00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:33,059
that were just going around already in

379
00:17:40,340 --> 00:17:37,289
the 80s early 80s so but anyway well I

380
00:17:44,389 --> 00:17:40,350
was living in California I had many many

381
00:17:47,899 --> 00:17:44,399
occasions to visit the outskirts of area

382
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:47,909
51 the outer perimeters and I had some

383
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:50,809
interesting encounters there you know

384
00:17:58,190 --> 00:17:56,250
with you know dark military helicopters

385
00:18:00,680 --> 00:17:58,200
chasing us and so on and there are many

386
00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:00,690
many encounters with the Lincoln County

387
00:18:05,330 --> 00:18:03,510
Sheriff Department and so on okay now

388
00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:05,340
that's interesting when you have the

389
00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:07,590
sheriff going after you you can't I

390
00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:10,049
wonder there okay are they in the

391
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:13,980
process of trying to arrest you oh yes

392
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:16,710
they attempted well actually they didn't

393
00:18:24,020 --> 00:18:19,760
try to arrest me but they detained us

394
00:18:26,539 --> 00:18:24,030
for about an hour or so in fact I was

395
00:18:29,909 --> 00:18:26,549
detained in three separate occasions

396
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:29,919
there on public

397
00:18:40,529 --> 00:18:36,129
the first one was in 1991 where a group

398
00:18:44,129 --> 00:18:40,539
of us were detained right at highway 375

399
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:44,139
which is a public highway we were asked

400
00:18:52,139 --> 00:18:46,960
by the Lincoln County deputy sheriff

401
00:18:55,769 --> 00:18:52,149
Doug Lamoreaux to show our IDs and

402
00:18:58,499 --> 00:18:55,779
social security number which I had never

403
00:19:01,409 --> 00:18:58,509
heard security now that's right that's

404
00:19:03,779 --> 00:19:01,419
right and I was ignorant at that time

405
00:19:07,099 --> 00:19:03,789
and I gave out my social security number

406
00:19:10,859 --> 00:19:07,109
it was in this was in May of 1991 and

407
00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:10,869
other people in our group also uh you

408
00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:13,029
know were questioned and detained for

409
00:19:20,430 --> 00:19:17,080
one hour as we just came back from the

410
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:20,440
frightful encounter with military

411
00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:23,129
helicopter on dirt ran a dirt road

412
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,609
coming into highway 375 F this is the

413
00:19:31,139 --> 00:19:29,440
infamous black mailbox road there that

414
00:19:34,379 --> 00:19:31,149
that burn off from the from the highway

415
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:34,389
to hell this is not the black mailbox

416
00:19:42,389 --> 00:19:37,450
world it's actually the groom Lake Road

417
00:19:43,979 --> 00:19:42,399
that goes directly to highway 375 what I

418
00:19:46,859 --> 00:19:43,989
asked you something just to kind of put

419
00:19:48,899 --> 00:19:46,869
things in perspective okay so your

420
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:48,909
sighting is a source for some of the

421
00:19:54,629 --> 00:19:51,730
material about issues at area 51 and

422
00:19:56,999 --> 00:19:54,639
also dulce from John Lear now as you

423
00:19:59,310 --> 00:19:57,009
know a lot of people think John Lear is

424
00:20:01,940 --> 00:19:59,320
kind of wacky if you get my drift I

425
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:01,950
doubt that I think he has a lot of

426
00:20:09,409 --> 00:20:05,950
fascinating information and in fact he

427
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:09,419
was the first person that actually

428
00:20:16,159 --> 00:20:13,840
disseminated the alleged old said you

429
00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:16,169
know the drawings of the vats and so on

430
00:20:24,389 --> 00:20:22,600
allegedly created by and West a lady by

431
00:20:25,259 --> 00:20:24,399
the name of a hand Wesson which is not a

432
00:20:30,029 --> 00:20:25,269
real name

433
00:20:32,639 --> 00:20:30,039
but this lady in I think the early 80s

434
00:20:35,869 --> 00:20:32,649
started giving information to John Mayer

435
00:20:40,639 --> 00:20:35,879
about this her drawings of the vats

436
00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:40,649
inside the Dulce facility and John Mayer

437
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:42,460
himself

438
00:20:48,570 --> 00:20:44,910
don't say and started talking with

439
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:48,580
people like the Paul bennewitz and so on

440
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:52,810
and but anyway generally R is not a you

441
00:20:56,790 --> 00:20:55,330
know kook I think he knows a lot of

442
00:21:00,120 --> 00:20:56,800
stuff he's one of the most knowledgeable

443
00:21:04,140 --> 00:21:00,130
persons when it comes to things like

444
00:21:08,790 --> 00:21:04,150
Nevada Test Site and other other things

445
00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:08,800
so I think that he's just he's he has a

446
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:13,300
two-sided you know face the further the

447
00:21:20,790 --> 00:21:16,960
one face is to appear ridiculous and the

448
00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:20,800
other face is the possession of you know

449
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:23,920
real important information so I think

450
00:21:28,260 --> 00:21:26,620
that's my take on John Lear but getting

451
00:21:31,050 --> 00:21:28,270
back to Lincoln County Sheriff

452
00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:31,060
Department in area 51 they have had a

453
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:34,420
cozy relationship for many many years in

454
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:39,490
fact since the well for many many years

455
00:21:48,780 --> 00:21:43,710
the Lincoln County Sheriff Department

456
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:48,790
received $80,000 a year from the Air

457
00:21:57,230 --> 00:21:54,490
Force Nellis Air Force Base in exchange

458
00:22:01,170 --> 00:21:57,240
for cooperating with the Air Force to

459
00:22:04,260 --> 00:22:01,180
you know check out on curiosity seekers

460
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:04,270
trying to go near the perimeters over

461
00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:06,490
there and so they were receiving the

462
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:09,040
$80,000 and this is the reason why they

463
00:22:14,610 --> 00:22:11,050
have been doing that for many years but

464
00:22:16,170 --> 00:22:14,620
recently it has stopped but anyway the

465
00:22:20,790 --> 00:22:16,180
Lincoln County Sheriff Department

466
00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:20,800
created his telephone number indicating

467
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:23,560
that there is a great you know a very

468
00:22:28,410 --> 00:22:25,090
close relationship there telephone

469
00:22:31,770 --> 00:22:28,420
number ends in five one five one fifty

470
00:22:33,620 --> 00:22:31,780
one fifty one and even today so I asked

471
00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:33,630
the Lincoln County Health Department

472
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:37,150
when did this number telephone number

473
00:22:41,940 --> 00:22:40,450
you know got started and they said in

474
00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:41,950
verse for many years I'll tell you what

475
00:22:46,170 --> 00:22:44,440
we'll have a problem for many years if

476
00:22:48,690 --> 00:22:46,180
we don't tell you we've got Norio

477
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:48,700
Hayakawa with Jeanne and Chris you're in

478
00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:55,140
[Music]

479
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America's number one source for

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my friend Chris O'Brien we live in

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different locations we need to share

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something a document or something like

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that all I have to do is call him up

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with GoToMeeting and I say Chris take a

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look at this and he said he's ready to

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569
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570
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office computer I had to go across town

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for another meeting

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580
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581
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582
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free WebEx from cisco w EBE XCOM hi this

583
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:05,120
is Don Ecker and you are tuned into the

584
00:27:16,540 --> 00:27:08,000
para cast let me tell you what you're

585
00:27:19,030 --> 00:27:16,550
gonna hear stuff here with Gina and

586
00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:19,040
Chris in the para cast Norio Hayakawa

587
00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:23,150
telling us about Dulce area 51 and I

588
00:27:26,830 --> 00:27:24,830
know some of our listeners are going to

589
00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:26,840
say something because of the fact that

590
00:27:32,020 --> 00:27:29,420
he is taking what John Lear has to say

591
00:27:34,180 --> 00:27:32,030
seriously but we'll get past that you

592
00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:34,190
were continuing your story about the

593
00:27:40,030 --> 00:27:36,140
sheriff go ahead please yeah I was

594
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:40,040
telling about the close relationship

595
00:27:44,740 --> 00:27:41,840
between Lincoln County Sheriff's

596
00:27:49,060 --> 00:27:44,750
Department and area 51 they've had this

597
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:49,070
cozy relationship for many many years if

598
00:27:58,330 --> 00:27:53,360
you go to the public records department

599
00:28:01,780 --> 00:27:58,340
in Alamo town of Alamo in Nevada you can

600
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:01,790
find out everything about this you know

601
00:28:11,010 --> 00:28:06,290
the financial arrangements and so on and

602
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,020
so yes but you know maybe this is just

603
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:14,240
maybe it's common I'm not sure you know

604
00:28:19,150 --> 00:28:16,970
but you know it's a area 51 is a

605
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,160
fascinating place but a lot of people

606
00:28:24,940 --> 00:28:21,520
have the wrong information that it has

607
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:24,950
moved elsewhere like to new Utah and so

608
00:28:31,620 --> 00:28:27,650
on which is complete hogwash in fact the

609
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:31,630
area 51 is expanding as we speak and

610
00:28:38,770 --> 00:28:38,210
also just a year ago the Nevada state of

611
00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:38,780
Nevada

612
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:51,470
but

613
00:29:00,490 --> 00:28:57,770
new secretive testing ground just as you

614
00:29:03,580 --> 00:29:00,500
know secretive as area 51 which is

615
00:29:05,380 --> 00:29:03,590
located right next door so it's like

616
00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:05,390
having to area 51

617
00:29:13,149 --> 00:29:09,590
exactly and n2s to Ornette Nevada

618
00:29:17,140 --> 00:29:13,159
National Security site is now a large

619
00:29:22,049 --> 00:29:17,150
large large area for testing of new

620
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:22,059
weapon systems under the auspices of the

621
00:29:30,190 --> 00:29:26,690
anti-terrorism concept so this means

622
00:29:34,570 --> 00:29:30,200
that operations heretofore that have

623
00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:34,580
been conducted at area 51 can be you

624
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:38,270
know can go into that for that area as

625
00:29:44,980 --> 00:29:42,350
well so you see more new buildings at

626
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:44,990
area 51 and you know more big hangars

627
00:29:52,169 --> 00:29:48,080
and and you know every 51 is all about

628
00:29:55,659 --> 00:29:52,179
the weapon systems and integrated with

629
00:29:56,409 --> 00:29:55,669
avionics and so on but you know right

630
00:29:59,820 --> 00:29:56,419
next door

631
00:30:03,490 --> 00:29:59,830
the huge the larger place the new

632
00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:03,500
national security site they are doing

633
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:06,740
just about the same thing they will

634
00:30:12,250 --> 00:30:10,130
start doing same thing and so this is

635
00:30:15,220 --> 00:30:12,260
the reason why they are expanding there

636
00:30:19,810 --> 00:30:15,230
you can see this in Google satellite

637
00:30:24,659 --> 00:30:19,820
photos even today so the point is that

638
00:30:29,950 --> 00:30:24,669
yes area 51 is alive and well and so is

639
00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:29,960
the continuous rumors about areas in New

640
00:30:35,310 --> 00:30:33,020
Mexico - like white sands you know I

641
00:30:39,010 --> 00:30:35,320
live that I live in New Mexico now so

642
00:30:42,029 --> 00:30:39,020
I'm interested in the what's happening

643
00:30:44,260 --> 00:30:42,039
in New Mexico like the latest you know

644
00:30:49,060 --> 00:30:44,270
directed-energy weapons programs

645
00:30:53,470 --> 00:30:49,070
conducted at white sands and near horn

646
00:30:57,039 --> 00:30:53,480
Air Force Base and so these are things

647
00:30:59,320 --> 00:30:57,049
that fascinated me fascinate me and then

648
00:31:02,889 --> 00:30:59,330
in particular going back to the

649
00:31:05,049 --> 00:31:02,899
mysterious topic of Dulce New Mexico yes

650
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:05,059
there is something there there's no

651
00:31:10,629 --> 00:31:08,330
my mine but the bottom line is that

652
00:31:15,779 --> 00:31:10,639
there is there has never been any

653
00:31:18,399 --> 00:31:15,789
physical solid tangible irrefutable

654
00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:18,409
documentary evidence whatsoever that

655
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:20,590
there is a physical on the ground base

656
00:31:27,879 --> 00:31:25,279
under the Archuleta Mesa but there are

657
00:31:31,389 --> 00:31:27,889
lots of circumstantial evidences to

658
00:31:34,180 --> 00:31:31,399
point out that there is something there

659
00:31:36,399 --> 00:31:34,190
you know yeah it's kind of want to focus

660
00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:36,409
this because we have a cross-section of

661
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:38,990
listeners some of whom are very aware of

662
00:31:44,049 --> 00:31:42,320
Dulce New Mexico and the rumors and some

663
00:31:47,230 --> 00:31:44,059
of whom are saying what's that so to

664
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:47,240
serve both masters can you tell us a

665
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:49,490
little bit about the history where these

666
00:31:54,609 --> 00:31:52,159
stories began and then we can kind of

667
00:31:57,789 --> 00:31:54,619
explore them further yes it's very

668
00:32:02,470 --> 00:31:57,799
important know the history of Dulce New

669
00:32:03,609 --> 00:32:02,480
Mexico and the official name of those

670
00:32:07,389 --> 00:32:03,619
they used to be

671
00:32:12,669 --> 00:32:07,399
agua dulce which meant Sweetwater in

672
00:32:15,730 --> 00:32:12,679
Spanish so ever since the 1617 hundreds

673
00:32:18,460 --> 00:32:15,740
that the East Panos who are living in

674
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:18,470
that northern New Mexico area were

675
00:32:24,430 --> 00:32:22,850
basically Ranchers you know and they

676
00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:24,440
were descendants of the Spanish

677
00:32:30,899 --> 00:32:27,230
conquistadores who came to this region

678
00:32:35,109 --> 00:32:30,909
in the you know 16th century on so uh

679
00:32:38,590 --> 00:32:35,119
they you know this community of agua

680
00:32:41,379 --> 00:32:38,600
dulce started you know developing and

681
00:32:44,350 --> 00:32:41,389
but in early nineteen hundred's the

682
00:32:47,950 --> 00:32:44,360
United States government created an

683
00:32:54,129 --> 00:32:47,960
Indian Reservation in this area and

684
00:32:57,639 --> 00:32:54,139
brought in many Apache people from

685
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:57,649
elsewhere in New Mexico and then other

686
00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:00,559
places and then created a humongous

687
00:33:07,899 --> 00:33:03,700
reservation called the Hickory Apache

688
00:33:12,609 --> 00:33:07,909
Indian Reservation in which the they

689
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:12,619
changed the name to just dulce and so it

690
00:33:18,190 --> 00:33:16,970
has been Hickory Apache land for many

691
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:18,200
years

692
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:21,130
you know since the early 1900s and

693
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:25,760
things started happening after World War

694
00:33:33,250 --> 00:33:27,730
two

695
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:33,260
well there first of all the United

696
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:35,690
States government conducted an atomic

697
00:33:46,540 --> 00:33:43,130
test right near Dulce in 1967 the Atomic

698
00:33:51,130 --> 00:33:46,550
Energy Commission exploded an atomic

699
00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:51,140
nuclear device deep underground which

700
00:34:00,280 --> 00:33:55,070
was about 22 miles southwest of those in

701
00:34:04,830 --> 00:34:00,290
1968 and project gas buggy he that's

702
00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:04,840
correct and ever since that incident

703
00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:09,230
which allegedly as told by the

704
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,350
government was to ease the flow of

705
00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:15,200
natural gas in that area but a lot of

706
00:34:21,540 --> 00:34:18,020
people don't believe it there may have

707
00:34:25,630 --> 00:34:21,550
been other motives behind this strange

708
00:34:29,620 --> 00:34:25,640
you know experiment but you know that

709
00:34:32,050 --> 00:34:29,630
was in 1967 but you know a few years

710
00:34:34,690 --> 00:34:32,060
later or less than 10 years later

711
00:34:39,550 --> 00:34:34,700
something strange began to happen in the

712
00:34:42,570 --> 00:34:39,560
dulcet area and that is the beginning of

713
00:34:46,510 --> 00:34:42,580
mysterious cattle regulations here

714
00:34:50,020 --> 00:34:46,520
incidents in not only in the dohsa area

715
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:50,030
but north of New Mexico as well you know

716
00:35:01,120 --> 00:34:54,800
and into Colorado and so on but and then

717
00:35:07,810 --> 00:35:01,130
soon a rumor began to come around and

718
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:07,820
this was basically originated from an

719
00:35:12,490 --> 00:35:09,710
engineer by the name of Paul bennewitz

720
00:35:15,130 --> 00:35:12,500
who used to live in Albuquerque and who

721
00:35:18,730 --> 00:35:15,140
used to do business with the Kirtland

722
00:35:23,110 --> 00:35:18,740
Air Force Base selling them high caliber

723
00:35:25,930 --> 00:35:23,120
you know calibration equipment for the

724
00:35:27,850 --> 00:35:25,940
military and humidifiers and so on it

725
00:35:30,570 --> 00:35:27,860
was called these thunder scientific

726
00:35:34,990 --> 00:35:30,580
cooperation so paul Benowitz

727
00:35:37,050 --> 00:35:35,000
he did lots of work with the Kirtland

728
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:37,060
Air Force Base but at the same time

729
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:40,160
beginning around 1979 Paul bennewitz

730
00:35:47,350 --> 00:35:45,290
began to witness mysterious lights not

731
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:47,360
too far away from his home which is

732
00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:50,480
right next to Manzano underground

733
00:35:54,370 --> 00:35:53,240
nuclear facility in right inside the

734
00:36:00,070 --> 00:35:54,380
Kirtland Air Force Base

735
00:36:02,890 --> 00:36:00,080
worried and basically told the Paul

736
00:36:05,230 --> 00:36:02,900
bennewitz to come to the base and they

737
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:05,240
will explain to him what has been

738
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:09,650
happening but anyway no of course Paul

739
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:12,710
bennewitz is a story unto itself exactly

740
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:14,030
some of the things that happened with a

741
00:36:18,670 --> 00:36:16,310
can of worms right there voice we bring

742
00:36:20,590 --> 00:36:18,680
up the name then of Bill Moore and some

743
00:36:23,590 --> 00:36:20,600
of the alleged dissin firm ation that

744
00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:23,600
bill Moore was engaged in in the 1980s

745
00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:25,160
and what happened to Paul bennewitz a

746
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:27,320
very complicated story and obviously a

747
00:36:33,370 --> 00:36:30,890
lot more to talk about with area 51 or

748
00:36:36,010 --> 00:36:33,380
whatever it's called Dulce New Mexico

749
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,020
and all sorts of other stuff our guess

750
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:38,240
is Norio Hayakawa who has spent many

751
00:36:42,850 --> 00:36:40,970
years investigating these mysteries I'm

752
00:36:45,610 --> 00:36:42,860
Jean Steinberg the co-host is Chris

753
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:45,620
O'Brien as always you're in the para

754
00:37:00,540 --> 00:36:57,300
are you tired of searching for great

755
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talk-radio more important search know

756
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where we are

757
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the GCM radio network are you ready to

758
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order the official power cast t-shirt

759
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you asked we answered we're now taking

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762
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763
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764
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766
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786
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805
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806
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808
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810
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811
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815
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817
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819
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849
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850
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852
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use you must be 18 years or older to

854
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this is Leslie Kane and I'm with the

855
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:07,580
Coalition for freedom of information and

856
00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:11,599
you are listening to the podcast Norio

857
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:14,030
Hayakawa is our guest you're listening

858
00:41:19,630 --> 00:41:15,650
to Jeanne and Chris in the para cast

859
00:41:22,060 --> 00:41:19,640
when we split for a piece of business we

860
00:41:24,609 --> 00:41:22,070
were discussing the case of Paul

861
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:24,619
bennewitz because of what happened to

862
00:41:30,490 --> 00:41:27,590
Paul all the disinformation that was fed

863
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:30,500
to him allegedly do you find then that

864
00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:33,530
that makes what he had to say Nuria less

865
00:41:42,420 --> 00:41:38,510
credible no I I think in many ways he's

866
00:41:48,339 --> 00:41:42,430
credible in fact I think he may have

867
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:48,349
discovered the things in Dulce but the

868
00:41:58,750 --> 00:41:53,930
biggest mystery is to me whether the Air

869
00:42:02,410 --> 00:41:58,760
Force intentionally gave him this

870
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:02,420
information or information at the same

871
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:06,800
time and you know maybe it might have

872
00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:10,730
been some kind of a slow leak down on

873
00:42:18,270 --> 00:42:15,140
purpose but slowly you know mixed with

874
00:42:21,970 --> 00:42:18,280
this information at the same time and so

875
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:21,980
and that is the situation with Dulce

876
00:42:30,460 --> 00:42:25,160
there are too many many local residents

877
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:30,470
reporting strange jobs it's even even

878
00:42:38,620 --> 00:42:35,330
today you get these reports almost you

879
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,630
know every other day in Dulce well we

880
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:40,640
get to Fedora before we get too far away

881
00:42:45,579 --> 00:42:42,650
from the better with situation well I

882
00:42:49,329 --> 00:42:45,589
think we should remind listeners of some

883
00:42:50,859 --> 00:42:49,339
of the very underhanded and and sinister

884
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:50,869
tactics at the that Air Force

885
00:42:55,630 --> 00:42:52,970
intelligence she used on on Benowitz

886
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:55,640
which resulted and bennewitz being

887
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:57,440
committed I mean they drove him crazy

888
00:43:01,000 --> 00:42:59,839
they would do things like go into his

889
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:01,010
house when he wasn't there and

890
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:04,010
rearranged the furniture I mean they

891
00:43:08,890 --> 00:43:07,010
really they played with this guy and

892
00:43:11,530 --> 00:43:08,900
they played with his head and I think

893
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,540
that fact alone should be underscored

894
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:13,440
before we get too far down the road here

895
00:43:18,020 --> 00:43:15,690
but they really would they ruined a

896
00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:18,030
man's life yes no question about it

897
00:43:22,010 --> 00:43:19,470
well in certain things that he

898
00:43:24,349 --> 00:43:22,020
photographed over the Kirtland Air Force

899
00:43:25,940 --> 00:43:24,359
Base near the largest to my knowledge

900
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:25,950
the largest nuclear weapons storage

901
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:27,810
facility in this country that we know

902
00:43:33,470 --> 00:43:30,780
about he was filming very unusual

903
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:33,480
objects out in the coyote Canyon area he

904
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,310
was intercepting very interesting

905
00:43:39,050 --> 00:43:37,200
transmissions that could have been some

906
00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:39,060
sort of classified burst transmissions

907
00:43:45,859 --> 00:43:43,260
and as a patriotic American he in all

908
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:45,869
good conscience and with a sense of

909
00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:48,480
urgency contacted the Air Force to let

910
00:43:53,180 --> 00:43:50,700
them know that they may have you no

911
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:53,190
unusual activity that wasn't under their

912
00:43:57,130 --> 00:43:54,810
control going on in one of the most

913
00:44:00,859 --> 00:43:57,140
sensitive areas of this country and

914
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:00,869
instead of thanking him and moving on

915
00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:03,089
down the road and applauding his

916
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:07,980
patriotic you know fervor to contact

917
00:44:12,410 --> 00:44:10,050
them they used him as an as a human

918
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:12,420
guinea pig and used him as a vehicle for

919
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:14,310
disinformation and and that's a fact

920
00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:15,839
that I really I want to underscore

921
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:18,329
before we continue more yes this is all

922
00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:20,910
a fascinating thing you know we hear of

923
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:23,940
Bill Moore and you know Richard Doty and

924
00:44:31,250 --> 00:44:28,079
all these people claiming to have you

925
00:44:33,740 --> 00:44:31,260
know participated in the this

926
00:44:36,829 --> 00:44:33,750
disinformation tactic but you know

927
00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:36,839
basically the bottom line is there's no

928
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:40,680
documentation whatsoever naming people

929
00:44:47,569 --> 00:44:44,240
like William Moore or Richard Doty

930
00:44:50,569 --> 00:44:47,579
stating that they were part of this

931
00:44:55,819 --> 00:44:50,579
information program it's just you know I

932
00:44:59,480 --> 00:44:55,829
talked with a little more before and you

933
00:45:04,309 --> 00:44:59,490
know he declared that he participated in

934
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:04,319
this program when he spoke up in 1989 in

935
00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:09,440
Las Vegas MUFON meeting but there's no

936
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:12,359
indication as far as documents are

937
00:45:18,410 --> 00:45:15,119
concerned same was Richard Doty yes his

938
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:18,420
name comes up in Air Force documents in

939
00:45:24,349 --> 00:45:21,210
Kirtland but there's nothing no

940
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:24,359
documentation whatsoever about any kind

941
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:26,910
of participation

942
00:45:33,799 --> 00:45:32,160
you know with Paul bennewitz so there's

943
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:33,809
there's tape recordings of Bill Moore

944
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:35,609
and bennewitz in his house we have

945
00:45:40,039 --> 00:45:38,609
photographs that exist in investigator

946
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:40,049
files there's enough circumstantial

947
00:45:45,799 --> 00:45:42,930
evidence to support that that these

948
00:45:47,839 --> 00:45:45,809
these nefarious activities were going on

949
00:45:49,309 --> 00:45:47,849
and the fact that bennewitz ended up in

950
00:45:51,079 --> 00:45:49,319
a mental hospital that should tell you

951
00:45:54,349 --> 00:45:51,089
something I mean I was a brilliant

952
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:54,359
brilliant scientist I'd mentioned with

953
00:45:59,569 --> 00:45:57,599
regard to Richard Doty we have asked him

954
00:46:02,900 --> 00:45:59,579
several times to come on the Pera cast

955
00:46:04,789 --> 00:46:02,910
and explain himself explain what he's up

956
00:46:08,690 --> 00:46:04,799
to what did the shenanigans are all

957
00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:08,700
about and he sort of kinda almost came

958
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:11,700
on once then he chickens out so I don't

959
00:46:17,059 --> 00:46:13,680
know what to say about us well actually

960
00:46:19,460 --> 00:46:17,069
I don't think there's any credibility in

961
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:19,470
any of the things that he has come up

962
00:46:27,230 --> 00:46:23,490
and so you know the only actually the

963
00:46:34,430 --> 00:46:27,240
only person that had been trustworthy is

964
00:46:41,539 --> 00:46:34,440
the late gave Alves he to me is the only

965
00:46:44,450 --> 00:46:41,549
person that had got closest to what is

966
00:46:47,450 --> 00:46:44,460
behind the rumors about those day but

967
00:46:50,809 --> 00:46:47,460
unfortunately he passed away just about

968
00:46:55,789 --> 00:46:50,819
you know two months ago at his home had

969
00:47:01,299 --> 00:46:55,799
a fairly young age of 67 but you know he

970
00:47:06,349 --> 00:47:01,309
was the only person that I trust and he

971
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:06,359
he invited me to go with him to Elba the

972
00:47:13,460 --> 00:47:10,410
lake area because we're you know he has

973
00:47:14,569 --> 00:47:13,470
been investigating that area for several

974
00:47:18,019 --> 00:47:14,579
years already

975
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:18,029
even after retired but anyway he did

976
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:21,930
discover he says he discovered a couple

977
00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:26,400
of spheres in that Alberto Lake area and

978
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:30,569
he kept the spheres which was like you

979
00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:34,400
know just around

980
00:47:40,260 --> 00:47:36,280
crystal-like

981
00:47:43,740 --> 00:47:40,270
a ball of like a stone or some kind of

982
00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:43,750
material but he kept those in his house

983
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:46,630
but he didn't want to show those to

984
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:47,290
anybody

985
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:49,810
well we did anyway we should explain to

986
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:51,970
our listeners who may not be familiar we

987
00:47:56,580 --> 00:47:54,640
gave all those who he was first of all

988
00:48:00,360 --> 00:47:56,590
he was a New Mexico state patrolman who

989
00:48:02,910 --> 00:48:00,370
was stationed in the Dulce area in the

990
00:48:05,700 --> 00:48:02,920
mid to late 70s he was one of the lead

991
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:05,710
investigators on a whole rash of cattle

992
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:07,330
mutilations that occurred on the Manuel

993
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:11,710
Gomez ranch he befriended many people in

994
00:48:17,070 --> 00:48:14,410
the area he was well-liked very

995
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:17,080
well-respected and as norio has

996
00:48:22,050 --> 00:48:19,090
mentioned was was probably the most

997
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:22,060
thorough investigator of the dhol state

998
00:48:27,390 --> 00:48:26,170
area over the last 30 35 years and you

999
00:48:29,730 --> 00:48:27,400
know I must say know before we go too

1000
00:48:32,490 --> 00:48:29,740
far down the road you and I spoke here

1001
00:48:36,570 --> 00:48:32,500
briefly when I invited you on the show

1002
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:36,580
and you and I both have kind of a an

1003
00:48:43,770 --> 00:48:40,410
itch about the way that Gabe passed away

1004
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:43,780
so you know she's closely on the heels

1005
00:48:48,630 --> 00:48:46,810
of probably the most extensive interview

1006
00:48:51,540 --> 00:48:48,640
that he's ever granted I think he

1007
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:51,550
conducted a week or less before he died

1008
00:48:58,410 --> 00:48:54,880
with another radio show where he made

1009
00:49:01,290 --> 00:48:58,420
some very tantalizing comments about

1010
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:01,300
coming to some conclusions about what he

1011
00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:03,250
thought was going on in the Dulce area

1012
00:49:07,410 --> 00:49:05,440
dude would you care to comment on on

1013
00:49:10,170 --> 00:49:07,420
that you knew gave pretty darn well

1014
00:49:12,330 --> 00:49:10,180
probably better than most people Greg

1015
00:49:15,180 --> 00:49:12,340
Bishop of course knew him fairly well

1016
00:49:17,970 --> 00:49:15,190
Greg wrote the book project beta which

1017
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:17,980
is looking at the benifits case but

1018
00:49:21,890 --> 00:49:20,530
Nuria before we go on why don't you you

1019
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:21,900
know kind of share with our listeners

1020
00:49:27,390 --> 00:49:25,210
your feelings about Gabe's passing and

1021
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:27,400
some of the comments that he made very

1022
00:49:31,050 --> 00:49:29,770
shortly before he kind of died

1023
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:31,060
unexpectedly

1024
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:37,690
yes that's this was in August and he was

1025
00:49:46,590 --> 00:49:42,690
a Sunday morning and his wife found him

1026
00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:46,600
you know on his bed they were us you

1027
00:49:53,859 --> 00:49:48,660
know they had separate bedroom but

1028
00:49:57,700 --> 00:49:53,869
but anyway he was on the bed with no

1029
00:50:01,460 --> 00:49:57,710
sign of life and so I guess the

1030
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:01,470
paramedics king right away and tried to

1031
00:50:08,359 --> 00:50:04,970
revive him but he was already gone and

1032
00:50:11,799 --> 00:50:08,369
you know he was a healthy person he

1033
00:50:14,329 --> 00:50:11,809
never had any any indication as far as

1034
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:14,339
many people know of any kind of

1035
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:17,910
illnesses he was a very robust a healthy

1036
00:50:25,579 --> 00:50:21,780
guy you know he drove all around and

1037
00:50:29,539 --> 00:50:25,589
even as early as few months ago he went

1038
00:50:32,779 --> 00:50:29,549
to Dulce and he continues to investigate

1039
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:32,789
the dose a mystery and especially he has

1040
00:50:39,589 --> 00:50:35,609
been concentrating on a lake nearby

1041
00:50:44,660 --> 00:50:39,599
they're a lot alike in you know and he

1042
00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:44,670
invited you know us to join him very

1043
00:50:48,170 --> 00:50:45,900
soon too

1044
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:48,180
and then he said he will show some

1045
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:51,930
interesting places but anyway he died so

1046
00:51:04,599 --> 00:50:56,490
suddenly and we don't know if it's like

1047
00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:07,519
what kind of death it was because we

1048
00:51:14,750 --> 00:51:11,940
didn't want to actually bother the the

1049
00:51:16,099 --> 00:51:14,760
family too much isn't that interesting

1050
00:51:19,180 --> 00:51:16,109
and we'll go into it our next segment

1051
00:51:22,460 --> 00:51:19,190
Oreo how there have been occasional

1052
00:51:25,970 --> 00:51:22,470
passings in the UFO field that somehow

1053
00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:25,980
seemed to be questionable we go back to

1054
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:29,250
dr. James McDonald in the 1960s Morris K

1055
00:51:34,910 --> 00:51:32,400
Jessup in the 1950s etc our guest Norio

1056
00:51:38,650 --> 00:51:34,920
Hayakawa with gene and Chris you're in

1057
00:51:38,660 --> 00:51:44,700
[Music]

1058
00:51:50,940 --> 00:51:47,910
the GC and radio network providing the

1059
00:51:55,020 --> 00:51:50,950
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

1060
00:51:56,819 --> 00:51:55,030
and grey talk radio starts here hi this

1061
00:51:58,260 --> 00:51:56,829
is Ted Anderson if you own an Apple

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1075
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cotton wheat fabric engraving can bed

1076
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1077
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counterfeit than carding to a private

1078
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bank having a led back at interest

1079
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:30,339
forcing taxes to service debt this

1080
00:52:33,359 --> 00:52:32,050
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

1081
00:52:34,859 --> 00:52:33,369
stating a central bank issuing the

1082
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:34,869
public currency is a greater menace to

1083
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:35,890
the liberties of the people than a

1084
00:52:38,430 --> 00:52:37,119
standing army today understand I'm

1085
00:52:40,109 --> 00:52:38,440
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1086
00:52:43,319 --> 00:52:40,119
that explains our monetary system call

1087
00:52:46,140 --> 00:52:43,329
for your copy 806 86 to 237 it's time to

1088
00:52:49,180 --> 00:52:46,150
understand the system call 866 to 237

1089
00:52:55,980 --> 00:52:49,190
that's 800 6 8 6 2 2 3 7

1090
00:53:04,800 --> 00:52:59,950
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1091
00:53:12,430 --> 00:53:04,810
standard of paranormal radio and now

1092
00:53:16,540 --> 00:53:12,440
here's Jane Steinberg we're back with

1093
00:53:20,860 --> 00:53:16,550
Norio Hayakawa UFO researcher norio his

1094
00:53:22,930 --> 00:53:20,870
study dulce he studied area 51 and we're

1095
00:53:25,570 --> 00:53:22,940
talking about the death of a researcher

1096
00:53:30,220 --> 00:53:25,580
now what about it may seem suspicious

1097
00:53:33,370 --> 00:53:30,230
Norio well as i said to you that he was

1098
00:53:38,550 --> 00:53:33,380
a healthy guy and you know very likable

1099
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:38,560
person he was very much into ongoing

1100
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:41,510
investigation of the whole those the

1101
00:53:47,980 --> 00:53:44,210
area but you know and then he suddenly

1102
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:47,990
died and you know you know we don't know

1103
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:52,220
what force you're you know we what we do

1104
00:53:57,370 --> 00:53:55,250
on the show is we open up a thread at

1105
00:54:00,130 --> 00:53:57,380
the para caste forum to allow our

1106
00:54:02,410 --> 00:54:00,140
listeners a chance to ask you questions

1107
00:54:04,090 --> 00:54:02,420
when we tape the show and trained

1108
00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:04,100
observer who is a fairly long time

1109
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:07,250
poster has a question here that that is

1110
00:54:12,130 --> 00:54:09,470
involved with this particular topic and

1111
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:12,140
in the question is Gabe Valdez appeared

1112
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:15,200
on in an interview on open minds TV just

1113
00:54:18,610 --> 00:54:16,880
weeks before his death actually it was

1114
00:54:20,380 --> 00:54:18,620
less than that they're learning the

1115
00:54:22,420 --> 00:54:20,390
sensitive research being done on

1116
00:54:25,060 --> 00:54:22,430
mutilated cattle and the need to avoid

1117
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:25,070
those carcasses in a recent interview on

1118
00:54:29,110 --> 00:54:28,160
the stench of truth podcast you stated

1119
00:54:30,310 --> 00:54:29,120
that you thought his death was

1120
00:54:32,590 --> 00:54:30,320
suspicious which is what we've been

1121
00:54:35,230 --> 00:54:32,600
talking about but could you elaborate

1122
00:54:37,690 --> 00:54:35,240
further and also tell us if mr. Valdez

1123
00:54:39,550 --> 00:54:37,700
ever confided in you what he believed

1124
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:39,560
the nature of the quote sensitive

1125
00:54:46,780 --> 00:54:42,650
research unquote was and what the cattle

1126
00:54:51,130 --> 00:54:46,790
were contaminated with actually he did

1127
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:51,140
not share with anybody that I know what

1128
00:54:58,990 --> 00:54:56,330
he is final conclusions were they all he

1129
00:55:02,020 --> 00:54:59,000
said and he kept repeating this that

1130
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:02,030
this subject is too sensitive that's or

1131
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:05,330
t he has been saying for the past few

1132
00:55:12,820 --> 00:55:08,890
years he would not tell anybody

1133
00:55:15,790 --> 00:55:12,830
what his conclusions are but his

1134
00:55:18,460 --> 00:55:15,800
conclusions are that this has nothing to

1135
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:18,470
do the aliens it has everything to do

1136
00:55:26,830 --> 00:55:23,690
the government so I have basically you

1137
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:26,840
know agreed with his interpretations of

1138
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:30,410
the whole dosa situation that the dolsot

1139
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:36,130
situation unfortunately too many UFO

1140
00:55:43,930 --> 00:55:40,490
believers the dosa situation has never

1141
00:55:47,610 --> 00:55:43,940
been proven that it has anything to do

1142
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:47,620
with alien activity there's no single

1143
00:55:53,650 --> 00:55:50,480
tangible evidence that the mysteries of

1144
00:55:55,420 --> 00:55:53,660
dosa has anything to do the aliens but

1145
00:55:58,770 --> 00:55:55,430
may have everything to do with the

1146
00:56:01,750 --> 00:55:58,780
government and governmental operations

1147
00:56:05,100 --> 00:56:01,760
part of all the stories we hear norio

1148
00:56:09,340 --> 00:56:05,110
about Dulce and of course area 51 that

1149
00:56:12,310 --> 00:56:09,350
predominantly these are places where

1150
00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:12,320
they test new weapon systems new

1151
00:56:18,430 --> 00:56:16,070
aircraft it's not ET that is seems to be

1152
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:18,440
the conclusion of gate valdez as well

1153
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:20,690
because gave bow there's actually told

1154
00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:25,730
us that he witnessed what we think is an

1155
00:56:32,830 --> 00:56:29,510
example of the government testing you

1156
00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:32,840
know you know many many scale what

1157
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:34,670
appears to be like Project Blue Beam

1158
00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:38,480
like projection of holographic images of

1159
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:41,510
the flying saucers and so on on you know

1160
00:56:47,710 --> 00:56:44,210
Archuleta Mesa and the surrounding areas

1161
00:56:51,850 --> 00:56:47,720
he actually he actually told me that he

1162
00:56:56,020 --> 00:56:51,860
did witness this type of projections and

1163
00:56:59,530 --> 00:56:56,030
also he witnessed you know props on the

1164
00:57:03,060 --> 00:56:59,540
Mesa and you know artificially created

1165
00:57:08,650 --> 00:57:03,070
props that looked like a you know small

1166
00:57:10,660 --> 00:57:08,660
a building or you know small events and

1167
00:57:16,540 --> 00:57:10,670
so on you know some kind of structures

1168
00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:16,550
and he did say that he encountered all

1169
00:57:21,300 --> 00:57:18,670
these things and he did encounter

1170
00:57:25,050 --> 00:57:21,310
military personnel at the

1171
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:25,060
those the airports and he he was

1172
00:57:31,530 --> 00:57:28,960
confronted with this military unit and

1173
00:57:35,070 --> 00:57:31,540
actually gave all this was brave enough

1174
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:35,080
to actually confront them also and

1175
00:57:42,450 --> 00:57:39,450
because he stressed that he was

1176
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:42,460
representing the state of New Mexico and

1177
00:57:48,990 --> 00:57:46,090
the military had no rights to be there

1178
00:57:51,060 --> 00:57:49,000
in that area which has nothing to do

1179
00:57:52,350 --> 00:57:51,070
with the military in fact the other

1180
00:57:55,550 --> 00:57:52,360
thing I want to ask you though it's

1181
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:55,560
about the sky's death now people can die

1182
00:58:01,650 --> 00:57:59,200
for many reasons they seem healthy they

1183
00:58:03,660 --> 00:58:01,660
seem active but maybe they have a heart

1184
00:58:05,550 --> 00:58:03,670
condition that went undiagnosed there

1185
00:58:07,770 --> 00:58:05,560
are lots of reasons why someone couldn't

1186
00:58:11,250 --> 00:58:07,780
kind of kick the bucket how old was he

1187
00:58:16,170 --> 00:58:11,260
well here was 67 but still in a very

1188
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:16,180
good physical shape to me as far as you

1189
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:18,730
know he was very outgoing and very

1190
00:58:24,570 --> 00:58:22,720
active he drives many hours you know

1191
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:24,580
back and forth

1192
00:58:32,610 --> 00:58:28,450
he likes to explore many areas of the

1193
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:32,620
the Dulce area you know and so on so you

1194
00:58:41,250 --> 00:58:36,370
know such an active guy suddenly dies

1195
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:41,260
and that to me is very very interesting

1196
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:43,530
or a very fascinating and intriguing

1197
00:58:49,350 --> 00:58:46,480
especially since he did an interview

1198
00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:49,360
just about a week before he died with

1199
00:58:58,730 --> 00:58:53,940
you know this group from California and

1200
00:59:02,610 --> 00:58:58,740
he was and then he was planning to take

1201
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:02,620
several people including myself you know

1202
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:06,910
to this this particular area near El

1203
00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:08,290
Barto Lake and so on

1204
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:10,990
but you know the the whole thing about

1205
00:59:19,620 --> 00:59:16,450
those things is this that there is in

1206
00:59:22,170 --> 00:59:19,630
fact the most of the people in Dulce

1207
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:22,180
which has a population of about 2600

1208
00:59:31,650 --> 00:59:26,650
people now most of the people have heard

1209
00:59:33,819 --> 00:59:31,660
of this the allegations about the

1210
00:59:37,390 --> 00:59:33,829
underground base in and

1211
00:59:41,219 --> 00:59:37,400
most people in those that know of a

1212
00:59:45,459 --> 00:59:41,229
relative or family or friend that has

1213
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:45,469
experienced the sightings or actually

1214
00:59:52,890 --> 00:59:50,450
encounters with military people or you

1215
00:59:56,709 --> 00:59:52,900
know had strange paranormal type

1216
00:59:59,289 --> 00:59:56,719
phenomenon in that area so yes I think

1217
01:00:02,620 --> 00:59:59,299
that there's definitely something in

1218
01:00:05,519 --> 01:00:02,630
there and you know this is the reason

1219
01:00:09,309 --> 01:00:05,529
why people like I think Jesse Ventura

1220
01:00:12,969 --> 01:00:09,319
finally got interested in the dosa

1221
01:00:17,170 --> 01:00:12,979
situation in fact it's my understanding

1222
01:00:23,069 --> 01:00:17,180
that Jesse Ventura and his staff were in

1223
01:00:28,569 --> 01:00:23,079
dulce on October the 21st Friday and

1224
01:00:32,620 --> 01:00:28,579
tried to film the segment about dosa in

1225
01:00:38,259 --> 01:00:32,630
in dosa but apparently he was denied

1226
01:00:42,609 --> 01:00:38,269
permission to film on the Mesa or even

1227
01:00:49,719 --> 01:00:42,619
go up to the Mesa permission from do you

1228
01:00:51,699 --> 01:00:49,729
get it from the actual technical aspect

1229
01:00:55,719 --> 01:00:51,709
of this whole thing the Archuleta Mesa

1230
01:00:58,839 --> 01:00:55,729
is definitely part of the he Korea

1231
01:01:01,299 --> 01:00:58,849
Apache nation as far as the southern

1232
01:01:04,420 --> 01:01:01,309
half of Archuleta Mesa is concerned and

1233
01:01:07,870 --> 01:01:04,430
New Mexico side and technically it

1234
01:01:11,410 --> 01:01:07,880
belongs to that Hickory Apache nation so

1235
01:01:15,359 --> 01:01:11,420
and it's like anybody trying to intrude

1236
01:01:18,849 --> 01:01:15,369
into another person's home so

1237
01:01:22,299 --> 01:01:18,859
technically and legally one has to get

1238
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:22,309
authorization to even go to actually

1239
01:01:28,779 --> 01:01:24,410
know Mesa now of course there are people

1240
01:01:31,209 --> 01:01:28,789
who has been up to the Mesa without

1241
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:31,219
going through this proper Channel but

1242
01:01:41,949 --> 01:01:35,119
you know the the the people over there I

1243
01:01:45,069 --> 01:01:41,959
think feel kind of you know violated you

1244
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:45,079
know in a sense when people just freely

1245
01:01:49,089 --> 01:01:46,880
come and go and

1246
01:01:51,099 --> 01:01:49,099
up on the Mesa or go up to actually the

1247
01:01:53,620 --> 01:01:51,109
mountain because it's part of the you

1248
01:01:55,180 --> 01:01:53,630
know yeah you know from personal

1249
01:01:57,970 --> 01:01:55,190
experience I think you were there with a

1250
01:01:59,859 --> 01:01:57,980
Japanese film crew in what was at 89 or

1251
01:02:02,499 --> 01:01:59,869
90 I think if I remember correctly and

1252
01:02:06,339 --> 01:02:02,509
and you were actually arrested that's

1253
01:02:08,349 --> 01:02:06,349
right you could speak from personal

1254
01:02:10,329 --> 01:02:08,359
experience but one thing I want to

1255
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:10,339
mention to the listeners here is I of

1256
01:02:13,930 --> 01:02:11,930
course you know being in the San Luis

1257
01:02:16,450 --> 01:02:13,940
Valley for so many years which is a

1258
01:02:19,690 --> 01:02:16,460
stone's throw away to the east from this

1259
01:02:21,789 --> 01:02:19,700
area I have spent quite a bit of time

1260
01:02:24,099 --> 01:02:21,799
researching the whole Dulce mystery

1261
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:24,109
myself and you know some some of the

1262
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:26,690
Apache there and one of the things that

1263
01:02:30,549 --> 01:02:28,250
I want to stress here is is the

1264
01:02:33,339 --> 01:02:30,559
underground base scenario is all very

1265
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:33,349
interesting but to me it's it's it's

1266
01:02:36,849 --> 01:02:35,450
like a red herring I'll tell you what

1267
01:02:41,710 --> 01:02:36,859
those are gonna sell some red herrings

1268
01:02:45,460 --> 01:02:41,720
right now definitely will sell some

1269
01:02:47,410 --> 01:02:45,470
gefilte fish but not with Norio Hayakawa

1270
01:02:54,730 --> 01:02:47,420
who's our guest this week you're in

1271
01:02:56,980 --> 01:02:54,740
America so here's what happened I was

1272
01:02:59,499 --> 01:02:56,990
placing an order online the site went

1273
01:03:01,599 --> 01:02:59,509
down it just stopped responding it took

1274
01:03:03,249 --> 01:03:01,609
hours before it returned but I'd already

1275
01:03:04,990 --> 01:03:03,259
placed the order with another company if

1276
01:03:06,819 --> 01:03:05,000
your site goes down you could lose

1277
01:03:08,650 --> 01:03:06,829
business and if you have a business or

1278
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:08,660
personal site you'll want to know it's

1279
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:11,210
easy to run and it will stay online at

1280
01:03:16,539 --> 01:03:14,569
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1281
01:03:17,799 --> 01:03:16,549
most reliable networks in the world

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1283
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:21,049
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1284
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1285
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:24,980
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1286
01:03:29,499 --> 01:03:26,930
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1287
01:03:29,980 --> 01:03:29,509
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01:03:31,870 --> 01:03:29,990
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1289
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:31,880
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1290
01:03:37,089 --> 01:03:34,130
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1292
01:03:43,900 --> 01:03:41,359
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1293
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:43,910
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1294
01:03:47,950 --> 01:03:45,680
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1295
01:03:50,019 --> 01:03:47,960
your fate awaits

1296
01:03:53,079 --> 01:03:50,029
hey everybody Jason Lewis here once

1297
01:03:54,460 --> 01:03:53,089
again these are hard times for investors

1298
01:03:56,380 --> 01:03:54,470
if you're like me you just don't know

1299
01:03:58,299 --> 01:03:56,390
where to put your money because there's

1300
01:03:59,380 --> 01:03:58,309
a downside to every possible scenario

1301
01:04:01,690 --> 01:03:59,390
now

1302
01:04:03,970 --> 01:04:01,700
every portfolio needs a hedge for

1303
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:03,980
inflation gold has been the classic I

1304
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:05,330
want to tell you want to be honest with

1305
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:07,490
you commodities fluctuate so you could

1306
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:09,770
lose money gold goes up and down but

1307
01:04:14,980 --> 01:04:12,170
every stable portfolio usually has an

1308
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:14,990
inflation hedge and gold is well the

1309
01:04:18,670 --> 01:04:17,210
gold standard Washington is not going to

1310
01:04:20,410 --> 01:04:18,680
get us out of this recovery so you've

1311
01:04:21,850 --> 01:04:20,420
got to protect yourself give it some

1312
01:04:24,130 --> 01:04:21,860
thought and if you're interested in

1313
01:04:25,450 --> 01:04:24,140
converting your IRA to gold or would

1314
01:04:54,330 --> 01:04:25,460
like to actually have it in your

1315
01:05:01,570 --> 01:04:59,680
1-866-376-8255 you are inviting bacteria

1316
01:05:03,370 --> 01:05:01,580
and acid to thrive in your body but

1317
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:03,380
there is something you can do simply add

1318
01:05:07,810 --> 01:05:06,050
10 drops of alkaviva plasma pH drops to

1319
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:07,820
your water to help your body rid itself

1320
01:05:12,490 --> 01:05:10,160
of acidic waste increase oxygen and

1321
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:12,500
raise your pH balance to optimum levels

1322
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Alka vision plasma pH drops combine a

1323
01:05:18,700 --> 01:05:16,640
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1324
01:05:20,410 --> 01:05:18,710
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1325
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:20,420
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1326
01:05:24,130 --> 01:05:22,250
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1327
01:05:26,140 --> 01:05:24,140
regain energy and vibrant health and

1328
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:26,150
studies show viruses bacteria and toxins

1329
01:05:30,970 --> 01:05:28,880
cannot survive in an alkaline high pH

1330
01:05:33,790 --> 01:05:30,980
environment order your bottle of aquavit

1331
01:05:37,330 --> 01:05:33,800
and plasma pH drops at aqua vision calm

1332
01:05:39,790 --> 01:05:37,340
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1333
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1338
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01:05:59,470 --> 01:05:57,320
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1342
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1351
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filters which are powerful enough to

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ber ke y today we'd like to hear from

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01:06:58,940 --> 01:06:54,750
you if you have a comment or question

1364
01:07:01,010 --> 01:06:58,950
about the power cast send it to news at

1365
01:07:05,539 --> 01:07:01,020
the para cast com

1366
01:07:08,059 --> 01:07:05,549
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

1367
01:07:11,180 --> 01:07:08,069
if you'd like to catch up on past

1368
01:07:14,210 --> 01:07:11,190
episodes we have hundreds of shows for

1369
01:07:15,950 --> 01:07:14,220
you to download direct from the para

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01:07:20,900 --> 01:07:15,960
cast com

1371
01:07:24,430 --> 01:07:20,910
that's the para cast dot-com or check us

1372
01:07:29,859 --> 01:07:26,920
gefilte fish why are we talking about

1373
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:29,869
the filter fish on the para cast Norio

1374
01:07:34,660 --> 01:07:32,480
Hayakawa's our guest Chris O'Brien was

1375
01:07:36,460 --> 01:07:34,670
asking one of his lengthy questions and

1376
01:07:38,380 --> 01:07:36,470
he always asks those questions at

1377
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:38,390
specific point in time when we're going

1378
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:41,510
to do a break but not selfish I wasn't

1379
01:07:45,490 --> 01:07:43,250
gonna ask a question I was gonna point

1380
01:07:47,140 --> 01:07:45,500
out that there's other things going on

1381
01:07:50,319 --> 01:07:47,150
up there that have been going on far

1382
01:07:52,740 --> 01:07:50,329
longer including the head of the

1383
01:07:54,550 --> 01:07:52,750
Department of Public Safety Hoyt Velarde

1384
01:07:57,220 --> 01:07:54,560
investigating over the years over a

1385
01:07:59,680 --> 01:07:57,230
hundred Bigfoot sightings on the Hickory

1386
01:08:01,829 --> 01:07:59,690
Apache reservation and one of the most

1387
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:01,839
prevalent in and covered up and

1388
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:05,359
secretive paranormal type phenomena that

1389
01:08:10,270 --> 01:08:07,609
occur there are the occurrences in

1390
01:08:12,910 --> 01:08:10,280
sightings of small two-foot-high swarthy

1391
01:08:15,940 --> 01:08:12,920
kind of hairy dwarves that are seen by

1392
01:08:18,130 --> 01:08:15,950
everybody quote-unquote in Dulce they're

1393
01:08:20,249 --> 01:08:18,140
seen even in the middle of town at times

1394
01:08:23,260 --> 01:08:20,259
and these this is the most prevalent

1395
01:08:25,809 --> 01:08:23,270
unusual type of phenomena that people

1396
01:08:28,689 --> 01:08:25,819
routinely experience there and and it is

1397
01:08:31,539 --> 01:08:28,699
the most covered up and least talked

1398
01:08:33,670 --> 01:08:31,549
about element of the mysterious coins on

1399
01:08:35,950 --> 01:08:33,680
there so you know when we talk about

1400
01:08:39,309 --> 01:08:35,960
Dulce and we have someone like an

1401
01:08:42,070 --> 01:08:39,319
Anthony Sanchez on the show and we dive

1402
01:08:44,050 --> 01:08:42,080
into all this this just screenplay

1403
01:08:46,420 --> 01:08:44,060
sounding Hollywood screenplay sounding

1404
01:08:48,970 --> 01:08:46,430
scenarios of discovery of underground

1405
01:08:50,620 --> 01:08:48,980
aliens in a cavern with sophisticated

1406
01:08:53,499 --> 01:08:50,630
equipment that have the history of their

1407
01:08:55,689 --> 01:08:53,509
civilization and blah blah blah - - that

1408
01:08:57,490 --> 01:08:55,699
is not really where at least for me as

1409
01:09:00,010 --> 01:08:57,500
an investigator where the real rich

1410
01:09:02,260 --> 01:09:00,020
nutrients of discovery lie it lies in

1411
01:09:04,090 --> 01:09:02,270
the traditions of the Hickory ax they're

1412
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:04,100
in the traditions of the Spanish

1413
01:09:08,729 --> 01:09:06,319
longtime Spanish ranching community and

1414
01:09:11,650 --> 01:09:08,739
I think a lot of these other attendant

1415
01:09:13,689 --> 01:09:11,660
disinformation type elements are there

1416
01:09:15,610 --> 01:09:13,699
to maybe keep us from looking at what

1417
01:09:17,140 --> 01:09:15,620
really is going on there what do you

1418
01:09:19,390 --> 01:09:17,150
think of that noir yo have you heard

1419
01:09:22,749 --> 01:09:19,400
about these other types of phenomena oh

1420
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:22,759
yes in fact you know that whole region

1421
01:09:30,430 --> 01:09:27,410
is filled with beliefs in the paranormal

1422
01:09:33,450 --> 01:09:30,440
because the Hickory Apache nation and

1423
01:09:36,459 --> 01:09:33,460
you know of course this applies to most

1424
01:09:39,849 --> 01:09:36,469
Native American culture they have

1425
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:39,859
which traditional of you know cultural

1426
01:09:46,329 --> 01:09:42,170
and spiritual beliefs which is very

1427
01:09:49,900 --> 01:09:46,339
similar to paranormal phenomenon and

1428
01:09:53,380 --> 01:09:49,910
there's no doubt that people see what

1429
01:09:56,950 --> 01:09:53,390
they see for example people even here

1430
01:09:59,709 --> 01:09:56,960
they claim to hear chantings at the

1431
01:10:01,150 --> 01:09:59,719
middle of the night where just from

1432
01:10:05,020 --> 01:10:01,160
nowhere you know and then of course

1433
01:10:09,490 --> 01:10:05,030
sightings of Bigfoot and other entities

1434
01:10:14,140 --> 01:10:09,500
in that area is quite common and but it

1435
01:10:18,970 --> 01:10:14,150
has a close association with the beliefs

1436
01:10:22,810 --> 01:10:18,980
and so we cannot deny at all that there

1437
01:10:26,050 --> 01:10:22,820
are such phenomenon that's there and I

1438
01:10:28,689 --> 01:10:26,060
think my feeling is that the government

1439
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:28,699
is interested in this phenomenon as well

1440
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:33,250
and it's inside the the sovereignty of

1441
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:36,770
Indian nation it's a convenient place

1442
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:41,530
for the government as well to get some

1443
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:43,930
information and maybe you know

1444
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:46,130
investigations into the paranormal as

1445
01:10:51,970 --> 01:10:49,570
well so the one hand we have had this

1446
01:10:55,540 --> 01:10:51,980
allegation about the physical on the

1447
01:10:58,180 --> 01:10:55,550
ground base the bio lab and so on but as

1448
01:11:01,630 --> 01:10:58,190
you said there are other phenomenon that

1449
01:11:04,750 --> 01:11:01,640
surround that that area so you know it's

1450
01:11:08,550 --> 01:11:04,760
a mystery it's a mystery and it will go

1451
01:11:12,670 --> 01:11:08,560
on the topic of don't say it will go on

1452
01:11:15,550 --> 01:11:12,680
because there are constant reports of

1453
01:11:19,660 --> 01:11:15,560
this type of activity whether sightings

1454
01:11:22,979 --> 01:11:19,670
of an entity or a Bigfoot or you know

1455
01:11:26,470 --> 01:11:22,989
that whole area is to me is very

1456
01:11:28,209 --> 01:11:26,480
conducive to you know it's a group

1457
01:11:30,729 --> 01:11:28,219
interesting environment you know you

1458
01:11:35,380 --> 01:11:30,739
have the Navajo rather beautiful scenery

1459
01:11:38,650 --> 01:11:35,390
and very isolated and even today

1460
01:11:41,830 --> 01:11:38,660
actually if one goes and drives along

1461
01:11:45,970 --> 01:11:41,840
the past the bridge Navajo River in

1462
01:11:47,620 --> 01:11:45,980
Dulce and drives along the j2 Road and

1463
01:11:50,290 --> 01:11:47,630
you know j9

1464
01:11:53,229 --> 01:11:50,300
Road going around the Mesa at the

1465
01:11:55,810 --> 01:11:53,239
foothills of the Mesa but hardly anybody

1466
01:11:58,110 --> 01:11:55,820
is there it's just like just like area

1467
01:12:02,950 --> 01:11:58,120
51 actually you know people talk about

1468
01:12:04,990 --> 01:12:02,960
mile marker 357 or a mile marker 29 and

1469
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:05,000
a half mile marker in the black mailbox

1470
01:12:11,169 --> 01:12:08,090
that has become so famous but even today

1471
01:12:14,649 --> 01:12:11,179
there's hardly anybody in it practically

1472
01:12:16,870 --> 01:12:14,659
every day or night there's practically

1473
01:12:18,820 --> 01:12:16,880
anybody that meals around that there

1474
01:12:21,610 --> 01:12:18,830
have because that's how it is these are

1475
01:12:23,590 --> 01:12:21,620
a remote area but in the case of Dulce

1476
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:23,600
it's different it's right next to the

1477
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:25,610
town of don't say but the people in

1478
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:28,610
Gosei don't really go that part that

1479
01:12:35,379 --> 01:12:32,090
often to these areas anytime of the day

1480
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:35,389
you hardly see anybody walking or

1481
01:12:41,830 --> 01:12:39,679
driving on the road to the Art of

1482
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:41,840
Animation boat there there's just little

1483
01:12:45,850 --> 01:12:43,489
ranch roads and dirt roads that

1484
01:12:47,770 --> 01:12:45,860
crisscross the area but very few ranches

1485
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:47,780
very few dwellings I've driven all

1486
01:12:51,729 --> 01:12:49,280
around that area on a number of

1487
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:51,739
occasions and it's no surprise to me

1488
01:12:56,020 --> 01:12:54,080
that types of creatures are seen and

1489
01:12:57,669 --> 01:12:56,030
stuff and you have to factor in the

1490
01:12:59,500 --> 01:12:57,679
belief systems of the people of course

1491
01:13:01,840 --> 01:12:59,510
but when the headed Department of Public

1492
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:01,850
Safety tells me with a straight face and

1493
01:13:05,740 --> 01:13:03,610
he's been out on over a hundred bit

1494
01:13:08,590 --> 01:13:05,750
reports in it and he shows me a cell

1495
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:08,600
phone cell phone footage of a Bigfoot

1496
01:13:13,149 --> 01:13:10,130
running across a road in front of a

1497
01:13:15,459 --> 01:13:13,159
carload screaming kids well when you

1498
01:13:18,129 --> 01:13:15,469
have the the longtime head of the

1499
01:13:19,810 --> 01:13:18,139
Department of Public Safety you know say

1500
01:13:21,340 --> 01:13:19,820
with a straight face that he's had gone

1501
01:13:23,169 --> 01:13:21,350
out and investigated over a hundred

1502
01:13:25,629 --> 01:13:23,179
Bigfoot reports over the years and then

1503
01:13:27,370 --> 01:13:25,639
he whips out cell phone footage of a

1504
01:13:29,470 --> 01:13:27,380
Bigfoot running across the road at night

1505
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:29,480
and there's a car of screaming kids that

1506
01:13:33,550 --> 01:13:31,850
are experiencing this I mean to me that

1507
01:13:36,100 --> 01:13:33,560
was a real thing that wasn't a hoax is

1508
01:13:38,890 --> 01:13:36,110
that something we can get a copy of well

1509
01:13:41,470 --> 01:13:38,900
it's got it sure okay your assignment

1510
01:13:43,649 --> 01:13:41,480
should you decide to accept it is to get

1511
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:43,659
us a copy and let's post it in our forms

1512
01:13:47,979 --> 01:13:46,370
try to get Hoyt on the on the show be

1513
01:13:49,570 --> 01:13:47,989
great to have an Oreo back and have Hoyt

1514
01:13:52,270 --> 01:13:49,580
on the show what do you think of white

1515
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:52,280
Velarde I mean how was well it's time if

1516
01:13:59,140 --> 01:13:55,730
you spent with Hawaii yes actually mr.

1517
01:13:59,959 --> 01:13:59,150
Volare is an interesting person but of

1518
01:14:03,550 --> 01:13:59,969
course

1519
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:03,560
not everybody in those who agrees that

1520
01:14:08,540 --> 01:14:07,770
is a likable guy in fact he has a

1521
01:14:15,979 --> 01:14:08,550
nickname

1522
01:14:17,959 --> 01:14:15,989
among many people in Dorset so you know

1523
01:14:20,300 --> 01:14:17,969
there are two sides to the coin and

1524
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:20,310
there are people in those things who

1525
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:23,040
feel that who is very evening enigmatic

1526
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:27,090
guy the other others don't care that

1527
01:14:32,180 --> 01:14:29,610
much about him or just think he's just a

1528
01:14:35,709 --> 01:14:32,190
regular guy but you know there are two

1529
01:14:38,750 --> 01:14:35,719
sides to the coin and what Gilardi

1530
01:14:42,590 --> 01:14:38,760
actually discouraged a lot of people

1531
01:14:45,650 --> 01:14:42,600
from going to you know going up the Mesa

1532
01:14:50,660 --> 01:14:45,660
and so on you know all these years and

1533
01:14:56,330 --> 01:14:50,670
actually in 1990 early 1990s he told the

1534
01:15:01,280 --> 01:14:56,340
TV crews that there's actually he cannot

1535
01:15:04,970 --> 01:15:01,290
get to the Mesa and so on one hand yes

1536
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:04,980
he's definitely he has opened up he has

1537
01:15:11,930 --> 01:15:08,090
opened up especially in recent years and

1538
01:15:17,150 --> 01:15:11,940
but even by attending the dolsot

1539
01:15:18,770 --> 01:15:17,160
conference in 2009 and will be presented

1540
01:15:20,780 --> 01:15:18,780
he actually got up in front of the room

1541
01:15:23,060 --> 01:15:20,790
and presented pretty interesting talk

1542
01:15:25,250 --> 01:15:23,070
but did you get do you think let's go to

1543
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:25,260
that question in a moment we have norio

1544
01:15:30,770 --> 01:15:27,600
Hayek our joining us we're talking about

1545
01:15:33,410 --> 01:15:30,780
dulce about area 51 and all sorts of

1546
01:15:36,070 --> 01:15:33,420
strange stuff Jean and Chris you're in

1547
01:15:41,700 --> 01:15:36,080
the para cast

1548
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:43,780
[Music]

1549
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America's number one source for

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Keep Calm today hi this is no clear

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physicist dr. Stan Friedman you're

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01:20:01,520 --> 01:19:56,620
listening to the parent

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01:20:04,890 --> 01:20:01,530
the gold-standard a paranormal radio

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01:20:06,540 --> 01:20:04,900
we're back with Norio Hayakawa making

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01:20:08,460 --> 01:20:06,550
his first appearance in the para cast

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01:20:11,010 --> 01:20:08,470
we're sure it won't be the last because

1655
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:11,020
we can only cover a part of what's going

1656
01:20:15,780 --> 01:20:13,570
on so Chris you were about to start a

1657
01:20:17,850 --> 01:20:15,790
discussion well I was gonna ask that

1658
01:20:19,950 --> 01:20:17,860
Nouriel I mean personally as an

1659
01:20:22,110 --> 01:20:19,960
investigator in a long time with a

1660
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:22,120
longtime interest in the Dulce case you

1661
01:20:29,460 --> 01:20:25,210
do find height credible well I think

1662
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:29,470
that it's very difficult to say who is

1663
01:20:39,660 --> 01:20:34,960
credible or not you know so everybody

1664
01:20:45,810 --> 01:20:39,670
has its own you know own agenda and

1665
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:45,820
issues so it's we just have to wait and

1666
01:20:54,930 --> 01:20:52,000
see you know the I think that he has

1667
01:20:57,210 --> 01:20:54,940
opened up no question about it but and

1668
01:20:59,400 --> 01:20:57,220
then I think he still belongs to an

1669
01:21:02,370 --> 01:20:59,410
organization of you know Bigfoot

1670
01:21:05,870 --> 01:21:02,380
research organization but I don't think

1671
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:05,880
his health is that that great these days

1672
01:21:15,030 --> 01:21:12,250
but there seems to be well some kind of

1673
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:15,040
a disagreement among themselves in the

1674
01:21:23,070 --> 01:21:18,090
council tribal council because you know

1675
01:21:26,700 --> 01:21:23,080
he actually still considers himself an

1676
01:21:30,170 --> 01:21:26,710
authority as far as law is concerned

1677
01:21:35,580 --> 01:21:30,180
even though he retired but when a person

1678
01:21:40,050 --> 01:21:35,590
like Anthony Sanchez gets a permission

1679
01:21:43,050 --> 01:21:40,060
from you know other members of the

1680
01:21:45,870 --> 01:21:43,060
council in public relations officer and

1681
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:45,880
so on and then goes up on the out you

1682
01:21:53,550 --> 01:21:48,930
later Mason takes pictures and so on I

1683
01:21:56,340 --> 01:21:53,560
think what Velarde was not too happy

1684
01:21:58,890 --> 01:21:56,350
about it and this happened you know just

1685
01:22:01,380 --> 01:21:58,900
last week I think actually a few days

1686
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:01,390
ago you know I mentioned to you Jesse

1687
01:22:09,330 --> 01:22:05,170
Ventura or trying to do a film in Dulce

1688
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:09,340
but he was not received that way

1689
01:22:15,209 --> 01:22:11,170
maybe it's because of his you know

1690
01:22:19,290 --> 01:22:15,219
approach but so he had to do the filming

1691
01:22:21,419 --> 01:22:19,300
in Lumberton you know so but on the

1692
01:22:25,109 --> 01:22:21,429
other hand people like Anthony Sanchez

1693
01:22:29,250 --> 01:22:25,119
who got to know family there a

1694
01:22:33,020 --> 01:22:29,260
particular family who I think his could

1695
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:33,030
be quite influential there this family

1696
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:36,010
has been very close with Anthony's Aaron

1697
01:22:43,859 --> 01:22:39,730
Sanchez in the past few months and this

1698
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:43,869
family and in fact one of the family

1699
01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:47,050
members is works for the games and Fish

1700
01:22:54,209 --> 01:22:52,719
Department and I he this person who

1701
01:22:57,510 --> 01:22:54,219
works for the games in the Fish

1702
01:23:00,149 --> 01:22:57,520
Department told Anthony Sanchez just a

1703
01:23:06,709 --> 01:23:00,159
few days ago that about six months ago

1704
01:23:10,979 --> 01:23:06,719
or so he was guiding a basketball player

1705
01:23:16,350 --> 01:23:10,989
Lakers player or somebody I'm not sure -

1706
01:23:23,430 --> 01:23:16,360
you know hunting and took them to the

1707
01:23:26,750 --> 01:23:23,440
Mesa and part of the Mesa and but he he

1708
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:26,760
said he encountered a military person

1709
01:23:32,580 --> 01:23:30,010
somewhere on the Mesa and was told by

1710
01:23:36,330 --> 01:23:32,590
the military person that this is a

1711
01:23:38,939 --> 01:23:36,340
restricted area and about this person

1712
01:23:42,750 --> 01:23:38,949
the Hickory Apache a person member of

1713
01:23:47,569 --> 01:23:42,760
the tribe told him that no this is not

1714
01:23:52,020 --> 01:23:47,579
true this is Hickory Apache land and but

1715
01:23:57,330 --> 01:23:52,030
the military person said that this is

1716
01:24:00,660 --> 01:23:57,340
now restricted now this was it told by

1717
01:24:04,140 --> 01:24:00,670
this person influential person there so

1718
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:04,150
I think there's something to it there

1719
01:24:11,689 --> 01:24:07,570
the whole Archuleta Mesa is so huge

1720
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:11,699
in fact it's so huge that it includes

1721
01:24:17,859 --> 01:24:14,650
you know the the big are chelator

1722
01:24:22,449 --> 01:24:17,869
mountain on the west side

1723
01:24:26,139 --> 01:24:22,459
northwest side of the the Mesa and one

1724
01:24:30,929 --> 01:24:26,149
can easily get lost in there and you can

1725
01:24:34,209 --> 01:24:30,939
walk hours and hours on the Mesa and

1726
01:24:40,359 --> 01:24:34,219
that's why it's very definitely the area

1727
01:24:44,020 --> 01:24:40,369
and Mille so the fact that Anthony

1728
01:24:47,319 --> 01:24:44,030
Sanchez got you know friendly with this

1729
01:24:51,819 --> 01:24:47,329
family and by the way this family also

1730
01:24:54,879 --> 01:24:51,829
is the manager of the dosa Airport the

1731
01:24:56,830 --> 01:24:54,889
only Airport in the town of Mulsanne

1732
01:25:01,959 --> 01:24:56,840
just outside of don't say there is this

1733
01:25:08,669 --> 01:25:01,969
Airport managed by by him this family

1734
01:25:12,639 --> 01:25:08,679
and this manager of the airport told us

1735
01:25:17,049 --> 01:25:12,649
told me personally that he did encounter

1736
01:25:20,889 --> 01:25:17,059
some strange object at the airport

1737
01:25:26,399 --> 01:25:20,899
during one night rising from the ground

1738
01:25:32,139 --> 01:25:26,409
and you know like a strange object and

1739
01:25:35,469 --> 01:25:32,149
he as a manager telling this to other

1740
01:25:38,139 --> 01:25:35,479
person is really I think it's something

1741
01:25:40,959 --> 01:25:38,149
something that's very I think it's

1742
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:40,969
believable that she did see what he saw

1743
01:25:48,879 --> 01:25:45,530
and the Dulce Airport is very very

1744
01:25:54,279 --> 01:25:48,889
there's nothing there except a well

1745
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:54,289
maintained in a landing strip but hardly

1746
01:26:00,459 --> 01:25:58,010
there's anything there but oh no some

1747
01:26:04,899 --> 01:26:00,469
occasions this manager said he saw

1748
01:26:11,780 --> 01:26:04,909
things there so this kind of things need

1749
01:26:17,780 --> 01:26:15,110
the strangeness high strangeness goes on

1750
01:26:21,620 --> 01:26:17,790
and one example of high strangeness

1751
01:26:25,690 --> 01:26:21,630
about the dosa area happened just about

1752
01:26:29,270 --> 01:26:25,700
two weeks ago when during the daytime

1753
01:26:34,630 --> 01:26:29,280
many many people in Dulce witnessed

1754
01:26:40,790 --> 01:26:34,640
about 15 to 20 World War 2 aircraft

1755
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:40,800
doing maneuver over Dulce and people

1756
01:26:50,380 --> 01:26:44,850
don't know what was going on and before

1757
01:26:54,830 --> 01:26:50,390
this appearance of all the aircraft

1758
01:26:57,770 --> 01:26:54,840
there was a sonic like a sound a big

1759
01:27:00,860 --> 01:26:57,780
sound and nobody knew what it was and

1760
01:27:03,370 --> 01:27:00,870
you know we're still trying to find out

1761
01:27:06,500 --> 01:27:03,380
anybody who took these pictures of these

1762
01:27:11,210 --> 01:27:06,510
World War 2 aircraft but you know what

1763
01:27:16,430 --> 01:27:11,220
there's a theory that this family says

1764
01:27:21,940 --> 01:27:16,440
is that it may have something to do with

1765
01:27:26,780 --> 01:27:21,950
the sudden paradox of a paradigm change

1766
01:27:28,970 --> 01:27:26,790
and maybe what does that mean well big

1767
01:27:32,990 --> 01:27:28,980
like a time portal or something yes

1768
01:27:36,500 --> 01:27:33,000
because this family swears that one of

1769
01:27:40,130 --> 01:27:36,510
the markings of that white vintage all

1770
01:27:44,780 --> 01:27:40,140
the world war two aircraft had almost

1771
01:27:47,270 --> 01:27:44,790
like a Nazi symbol and they were this is

1772
01:27:50,330 --> 01:27:47,280
all news to me yeah this is this

1773
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:50,340
happened just about well about ten days

1774
01:27:57,890 --> 01:27:55,410
ago and they witness and they were just

1775
01:28:00,740 --> 01:27:57,900
didn't know what to think of it you know

1776
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:00,750
and there was no air shield anywhere

1777
01:28:09,740 --> 01:28:03,840
near there but it went on from our on

1778
01:28:12,650 --> 01:28:09,750
ten o'clock a.m. to about well 10:20 but

1779
01:28:15,410 --> 01:28:12,660
before that they heard a large sound and

1780
01:28:18,470 --> 01:28:15,420
then suddenly these aircraft was

1781
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:18,480
circling over don't say especially over

1782
01:28:25,060 --> 01:28:23,610
their house and so things like this is

1783
01:28:29,770 --> 01:28:25,070
hard to

1784
01:28:34,540 --> 01:28:29,780
freehand but you know this may or may

1785
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:34,550
not be related to strange happenings

1786
01:28:40,270 --> 01:28:37,449
over there where suddenly something

1787
01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:40,280
materializes from the where you know

1788
01:28:45,790 --> 01:28:42,590
this is the reason why that whole area

1789
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:45,800
some people say is associated with some

1790
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:49,690
kind of a time warp or you know sudden

1791
01:28:53,979 --> 01:28:52,130
materialization or the materialization

1792
01:28:55,959 --> 01:28:53,989
of some kind of a phenomenon you know

1793
01:28:58,660 --> 01:28:55,969
what this is kind of getting a little

1794
01:29:01,689 --> 01:28:58,670
bit confusing to me because at one point

1795
01:29:04,770 --> 01:29:01,699
we have unusual possibly paranormal

1796
01:29:07,180 --> 01:29:04,780
events we have this dimensional portal

1797
01:29:09,700 --> 01:29:07,190
possibility a dimensional portal and

1798
01:29:13,180 --> 01:29:09,710
then we have the reports about military

1799
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:13,190
bases so is the military building or

1800
01:29:19,359 --> 01:29:16,610
have a base there because this phenomena

1801
01:29:20,859 --> 01:29:19,369
is going on around it or is it a totally

1802
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:20,869
separate story and that's something

1803
01:29:24,459 --> 01:29:22,570
we'll focus on in the next segment

1804
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:24,469
listeners if you have a question or a

1805
01:29:29,620 --> 01:29:26,570
comment you always write us news at the

1806
01:29:32,709 --> 01:29:29,630
podcast calm news at the para cast com

1807
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we have Norio Hayakawa with Jeanne and

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are you tired of searching for great

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1879
01:32:45,850 --> 01:32:43,640
cancer please be aware of the risks

1880
01:32:47,740 --> 01:32:45,860
associated with e-cigs prior to use

1881
01:32:52,540 --> 01:32:47,750
you must be 18 years or older to

1882
01:32:54,370 --> 01:32:52,550
purchase keeping food on hand for

1883
01:32:56,650 --> 01:32:54,380
emergencies protects you the same way as

1884
01:32:58,450 --> 01:32:56,660
does insurance on your home or car with

1885
01:33:00,100 --> 01:32:58,460
freeze-dried guy freeze-dried foods in

1886
01:33:02,530 --> 01:33:00,110
your food reserve you can be ready for

1887
01:33:04,420 --> 01:33:02,540
just about any unexpected crisis right

1888
01:33:06,310 --> 01:33:04,430
now for the month of October 2011

1889
01:33:08,260 --> 01:33:06,320
freeze-dried guy is letting their

1890
01:33:10,450 --> 01:33:08,270
customers get first dibs on the meat

1891
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:10,460
bucket special that's roasted chicken

1892
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:13,130
Southwest style chicken teriyaki style

1893
01:33:17,620 --> 01:33:15,530
chicken stroganoff style beef cheesy

1894
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:17,630
ground beef and savory roasted ground

1895
01:33:23,290 --> 01:33:20,210
beef just add hot water and enjoy

1896
01:33:25,300 --> 01:33:23,300
portable easy convenient real meat real

1897
01:33:27,820 --> 01:33:25,310
good supplies won't last with this

1898
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:27,830
special offer order today to beef up

1899
01:33:31,930 --> 01:33:30,050
your freeze-dried meat supply you'll

1900
01:33:33,910 --> 01:33:31,940
even get twenty dollars back in survival

1901
01:33:35,860 --> 01:33:33,920
bucks for warty dollars when you beat

1902
01:33:38,170 --> 01:33:35,870
the rush and order our freeze-dried meat

1903
01:33:41,050 --> 01:33:38,180
buckets go to freeze-dry guy.com

1904
01:33:43,870 --> 01:33:41,060
that's freeze dry guy.com or call 866

1905
01:33:46,649 --> 01:33:43,880
four oh four three six six three that's

1906
01:34:08,969 --> 01:33:46,659
eight six six four oh four salute

1907
01:34:12,029 --> 01:34:08,979
I asked the question Norio Hayakawa in

1908
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:12,039
our last segment about the juxtaposition

1909
01:34:18,270 --> 01:34:14,530
separation or confusion involving a

1910
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:18,280
supposed government base and paranormal

1911
01:34:22,799 --> 01:34:21,010
events and other stuff with gene and

1912
01:34:26,699 --> 01:34:22,809
Chris and the power cast Nuria what's

1913
01:34:29,699 --> 01:34:26,709
your answer well my answer is that I am

1914
01:34:32,759 --> 01:34:29,709
open to the possibility that the

1915
01:34:37,620 --> 01:34:32,769
government is interested in this whole

1916
01:34:40,020 --> 01:34:37,630
area just as we are interested and maybe

1917
01:34:43,890 --> 01:34:40,030
the government may have been interested

1918
01:34:50,509 --> 01:34:43,900
for many many years in this area because

1919
01:34:54,989 --> 01:34:50,519
of the preponderance of these these

1920
01:34:57,750 --> 01:34:54,999
accounts of high strangeness in this

1921
01:35:00,209 --> 01:34:57,760
area so you know that the United States

1922
01:35:02,429 --> 01:35:00,219
government I think has always been

1923
01:35:05,390 --> 01:35:02,439
interested in the paranormal phenomena

1924
01:35:08,549 --> 01:35:05,400
and this is the reason why they have

1925
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:08,559
refused to disclose anything about this

1926
01:35:13,799 --> 01:35:11,650
whole UFO phenomenon and other phenomena

1927
01:35:16,819 --> 01:35:13,809
because it's out of the ordinary and

1928
01:35:20,399 --> 01:35:16,829
there's no explanation through the

1929
01:35:22,409 --> 01:35:20,409
empirical methods of a scientific you

1930
01:35:26,489 --> 01:35:22,419
know explanation and this is the reason

1931
01:35:29,580 --> 01:35:26,499
why they have not disclosed anything and

1932
01:35:32,339 --> 01:35:29,590
but at the same time they still continue

1933
01:35:35,669 --> 01:35:32,349
in my opinion to have interest in this

1934
01:35:40,319 --> 01:35:35,679
kind of thing because it also could be

1935
01:35:42,629 --> 01:35:40,329
used in some kind of a you know

1936
01:35:46,060 --> 01:35:42,639
psychological operations program in the

1937
01:35:49,290 --> 01:35:46,070
future everything seems to

1938
01:35:52,810 --> 01:35:49,300
me that many of these things are

1939
01:35:56,910 --> 01:35:52,820
everything the whole thing is is a

1940
01:36:00,520 --> 01:35:56,920
combination of the government's actual

1941
01:36:05,110 --> 01:36:00,530
involvement in research in paranormal

1942
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:05,120
and also involvement in possible you

1943
01:36:09,730 --> 01:36:06,370
know

1944
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:09,740
biological research in that area and

1945
01:36:16,750 --> 01:36:13,450
then also effects of you know the

1946
01:36:20,190 --> 01:36:16,760
radiation in that area in effects of the

1947
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:20,200
sickness effects of you know even

1948
01:36:27,670 --> 01:36:24,250
psychological beliefs of the people and

1949
01:36:32,980 --> 01:36:27,680
and so it could be a combination of

1950
01:36:35,380 --> 01:36:32,990
everything so I don't think it's it's

1951
01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:35,390
not simple it's not simple by any any

1952
01:36:41,380 --> 01:36:38,210
stretch now you mentioned you know the

1953
01:36:43,660 --> 01:36:41,390
city radiation in sickness now you and I

1954
01:36:46,990 --> 01:36:43,670
both know dr. Howard Eliason who spent

1955
01:36:49,540 --> 01:36:47,000
several years in the area very quietly

1956
01:36:52,480 --> 01:36:49,550
doing a study of above-ground radiation

1957
01:36:56,740 --> 01:36:52,490
levels and in trying to figure out why

1958
01:36:58,540 --> 01:36:56,750
that particular population there tends

1959
01:37:00,400 --> 01:36:58,550
to have some of the highest rates of

1960
01:37:06,610 --> 01:37:00,410
what appear to be environmentally caused

1961
01:37:09,790 --> 01:37:06,620
cancers from possibly radiation so it is

1962
01:37:14,050 --> 01:37:09,800
a is it's a it's a pot of call it's a

1963
01:37:16,330 --> 01:37:14,060
cauldron of bubbling mysteries that I

1964
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:16,340
think are all connected on some level

1965
01:37:19,810 --> 01:37:18,410
but do you have a sense that possibly

1966
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:19,820
there's some geophysical properties

1967
01:37:24,370 --> 01:37:22,730
there that may be extra-special that the

1968
01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:24,380
government knows about and is either

1969
01:37:30,490 --> 01:37:27,170
utilizing or trying to keep people from

1970
01:37:32,110 --> 01:37:30,500
finding out about it do you have a sense

1971
01:37:35,500 --> 01:37:32,120
that possibly there's some naturally

1972
01:37:38,230 --> 01:37:35,510
occurring elements there that may be

1973
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:38,240
conducive to help create or manifest

1974
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:40,730
these types of phenomena well as I said

1975
01:37:48,850 --> 01:37:45,290
you know I keep accounts I keep getting

1976
01:37:49,700 --> 01:37:48,860
accounts of the you know various things

1977
01:37:54,070 --> 01:37:49,710
there

1978
01:37:58,130 --> 01:37:54,080
not only this kind of thing but also the

1979
01:38:01,520 --> 01:37:58,140
incidents involving the hearing of law

1980
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:01,530
having vibrations coming from

1981
01:38:08,300 --> 01:38:04,290
underground as near the north of the

1982
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:08,310
Navajo River you know just like the hum

1983
01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:12,690
of cows that phenomena also has existed

1984
01:38:20,540 --> 01:38:18,810
in dosa and so again what what do you

1985
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:20,550
think of all of this it's just that

1986
01:38:28,370 --> 01:38:24,690
there's no answer right now and you know

1987
01:38:29,810 --> 01:38:28,380
it's this is all actually speculation as

1988
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:29,820
far as I'm concerned but it's an

1989
01:38:37,070 --> 01:38:32,489
interesting speculation and this is why

1990
01:38:40,220 --> 01:38:37,080
I am interested in the area because

1991
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:40,230
unlike places like Roswell in other

1992
01:38:45,260 --> 01:38:42,810
places you know that those are things of

1993
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:45,270
the past but when we talk about the

1994
01:38:53,149 --> 01:38:49,170
Dulce it's the things that are going on

1995
01:38:56,330 --> 01:38:53,159
now with days ago I mean we're we're

1996
01:38:59,810 --> 01:38:56,340
this report of a large formation of

1997
01:39:03,110 --> 01:38:59,820
vintage aircraft is quite eye-opening to

1998
01:39:06,410 --> 01:39:03,120
me yes this is a very very fascinating

1999
01:39:11,689 --> 01:39:06,420
thing and it was not dreamed dreamed up

2000
01:39:14,450 --> 01:39:11,699
in fact there was reports of this but no

2001
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:14,460
one newspaper has taken up this type of

2002
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:18,090
thing because you know and I checked I

2003
01:39:23,510 --> 01:39:21,090
researched on that particular day there

2004
01:39:26,149 --> 01:39:23,520
were whether there were any error air

2005
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:26,159
shows anywhere nearby in Colorado or

2006
01:39:32,930 --> 01:39:28,530
anyplace like that but none whatsoever

2007
01:39:34,700 --> 01:39:32,940
and these were some kind of yadi

2008
01:39:40,370 --> 01:39:34,710
according to the report made by this

2009
01:39:44,660 --> 01:39:40,380
family they it's circled that the dosa

2010
01:39:47,149 --> 01:39:44,670
area for you know a good 15 to 20

2011
01:39:55,189 --> 01:39:47,159
minutes and then they went away towards

2012
01:39:57,020 --> 01:39:55,199
I think north west area and but they not

2013
01:39:59,180 --> 01:39:57,030
only circled around but they seem to

2014
01:40:01,670 --> 01:39:59,190
have mates and maneuver

2015
01:40:06,220 --> 01:40:01,680
but some kind of a maneuvering like a

2016
01:40:09,020 --> 01:40:06,230
formation but yeah but you know what

2017
01:40:12,650 --> 01:40:09,030
explanation could be there you know

2018
01:40:14,990 --> 01:40:12,660
because and I think unfortunately when

2019
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:15,000
things like this happen it's very

2020
01:40:21,860 --> 01:40:17,730
difficult to obtain photographs because

2021
01:40:24,970 --> 01:40:21,870
you know when you see things like this a

2022
01:40:27,230 --> 01:40:24,980
lot of things that are just they're so

2023
01:40:29,810 --> 01:40:27,240
astonished that they don't have time to

2024
01:40:32,810 --> 01:40:29,820
they never think of taking pictures and

2025
01:40:37,550 --> 01:40:32,820
that this is something common in many of

2026
01:40:40,730 --> 01:40:37,560
these reports that you know yeah let's

2027
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:40,740
take for example the incident in

2028
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:44,010
Farmington in 1950 where hundreds of the

2029
01:40:50,480 --> 01:40:48,330
metallic spheres appeared over

2030
01:40:54,110 --> 01:40:50,490
Farmington but yet we don't see any

2031
01:40:57,410 --> 01:40:54,120
photos and of course the reason is that

2032
01:41:00,320 --> 01:40:57,420
in 1950 there was no cell phones and

2033
01:41:02,570 --> 01:41:00,330
people weren't carrying cameras every

2034
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:02,580
day you know dis parenthetically norio

2035
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:05,130
in the latest software from Apple for

2036
01:41:11,660 --> 01:41:08,970
the iPhone iOS 5 they make it easier for

2037
01:41:13,970 --> 01:41:11,670
you to activate the camera and fast

2038
01:41:16,100 --> 01:41:13,980
yourself you see the UFO or just some

2039
01:41:19,880 --> 01:41:16,110
kind of family event you can do it

2040
01:41:24,050 --> 01:41:19,890
faster than you did before yes this is a

2041
01:41:29,930 --> 01:41:24,060
good you know development so if more

2042
01:41:31,940 --> 01:41:29,940
people will be sensitive and could use

2043
01:41:34,310 --> 01:41:31,950
these that that would be great but you

2044
01:41:36,440 --> 01:41:34,320
know the they are just beginning to have

2045
01:41:38,660 --> 01:41:36,450
this kind of things but you know I have

2046
01:41:42,230 --> 01:41:38,670
seen photographs taken by a cell phone

2047
01:41:46,310 --> 01:41:42,240
in those there I think this year in

2048
01:41:49,460 --> 01:41:46,320
March in fact I had that photo on the

2049
01:41:53,990 --> 01:41:49,470
Facebook I still do have it on Facebook

2050
01:41:54,890 --> 01:41:54,000
it was taken by Dorie vigil a guy by the

2051
01:41:59,990 --> 01:41:54,900
name of Dorie

2052
01:42:04,910 --> 01:42:00,000
vigil Vig il who took this a picture of

2053
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:04,920
what looks like a an oval-shaped object

2054
01:42:11,030 --> 01:42:08,010
during the daytime right above the

2055
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:11,040
football field of the dosa

2056
01:42:18,920 --> 01:42:15,330
and you can see what appears to be small

2057
01:42:21,710 --> 01:42:18,930
lights encircling this oval shaped

2058
01:42:23,590 --> 01:42:21,720
object now some people have made

2059
01:42:27,350 --> 01:42:23,600
comments that it may have been a

2060
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:27,360
football actual football on a football

2061
01:42:34,430 --> 01:42:30,210
field but no it's definitely not and

2062
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:34,440
this was taken this year so you know you

2063
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:37,410
know the this thing goes on and on and

2064
01:42:47,510 --> 01:42:43,170
so thank God that now we have extended

2065
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:47,520
the network of people in Dorset who are

2066
01:42:54,500 --> 01:42:51,210
beginning to be more open about all

2067
01:42:58,970 --> 01:42:54,510
these things just a few years ago a lot

2068
01:43:01,970 --> 01:42:58,980
of people and Doce were a very reserved

2069
01:43:05,270 --> 01:43:01,980
and they didn't want to talk about these

2070
01:43:07,990 --> 01:43:05,280
kind of things but slowly it seems to me

2071
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:08,000
that people over there and don't say are

2072
01:43:14,660 --> 01:43:11,370
slowly but surely opening up and are

2073
01:43:17,780 --> 01:43:14,670
interested in sharing some of these

2074
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:17,790
things with the outside people which is

2075
01:43:21,830 --> 01:43:19,890
I think it's a good sign yeah that's a

2076
01:43:23,990 --> 01:43:21,840
very good sign I have a question here

2077
01:43:26,030 --> 01:43:24,000
from one of our longtime posters named

2078
01:43:28,310 --> 01:43:26,040
Blowfish and it's I think it's a very

2079
01:43:30,650 --> 01:43:28,320
creative question I'm not sure how

2080
01:43:34,340 --> 01:43:30,660
you're gonna respond to it but an Oreo

2081
01:43:37,490 --> 01:43:34,350
do you think it's plausible UFO USO

2082
01:43:39,440 --> 01:43:37,500
unidentified submerged objects might use

2083
01:43:42,890 --> 01:43:39,450
waterways connected to underground

2084
01:43:44,830 --> 01:43:42,900
cavern systems in the Dulce area and do

2085
01:43:46,940 --> 01:43:44,840
you think that there's any sort of

2086
01:43:50,450 --> 01:43:46,950
underground aquifers that might be

2087
01:43:52,700 --> 01:43:50,460
linked to let's say sea outlets also do

2088
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:52,710
you have any witness testimonies of orbs

2089
01:43:58,100 --> 01:43:55,530
skinwalker sightings or other types of

2090
01:44:00,830 --> 01:43:58,110
encounters at dams in lakes deep creeks

2091
01:44:03,530 --> 01:44:00,840
water holes and in that sort of thing

2092
01:44:06,440 --> 01:44:03,540
have you looked into the underground

2093
01:44:09,140 --> 01:44:06,450
aquifer scenario there in the Dulce area

2094
01:44:13,580 --> 01:44:09,150
oreo answers that question let me remind

2095
01:44:16,970 --> 01:44:13,590
you that when we post a thread or topic

2096
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:16,980
in the para caste community forums we

2097
01:44:20,510 --> 01:44:18,690
give you a chance to interact with the

2098
01:44:22,730 --> 01:44:20,520
guests to ask your questions we're

2099
01:44:23,770 --> 01:44:22,740
talking to Nouriel Hayakawa with Jean

2100
01:44:33,380 --> 01:44:23,780
and Chris your

2101
01:44:39,680 --> 01:44:36,650
the GC and radio network providing the

2102
01:44:43,970 --> 01:44:39,690
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

2103
01:44:45,590 --> 01:44:43,980
and great talk radio starts here hi this

2104
01:44:47,750 --> 01:44:45,600
is Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen

2105
01:44:48,260 --> 01:44:47,760
to GCM programs on the goal I have great

2106
01:44:50,150 --> 01:44:48,270
news

2107
01:44:52,160 --> 01:44:50,160
G Zn has created a Droid and iPhone

2108
01:44:54,260 --> 01:44:52,170
application and it's free just as easy

2109
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:54,270
as going to GC and live.com click on the

2110
01:44:57,290 --> 01:44:56,010
banner and download before you know it

2111
01:44:59,510 --> 01:44:57,300
you'll be listening to your favorite

2112
01:45:01,820 --> 01:44:59,520
hard-hitting GCN shows live around a man

2113
01:45:03,500 --> 01:45:01,830
right on your droid or iphone 24/7 and

2114
01:45:05,150 --> 01:45:03,510
on the go so download the droid an

2115
01:45:07,100 --> 01:45:05,160
iPhone app free by clicking on the

2116
01:45:09,050 --> 01:45:07,110
banner at GC and live.com thanks again

2117
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:09,060
for listening to GC and live.com again

2118
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:11,370
that's juicy and live.com hi this is Ted

2119
01:45:14,390 --> 01:45:12,570
Anderson have you ever wondered why

2120
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:14,400
banks stockbrokers investment advisors

2121
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:16,050
won't talk about gold I raise they've

2122
01:45:19,370 --> 01:45:17,850
been available since 1986 yet the

2123
01:45:21,260 --> 01:45:19,380
financial industry won't recognize the

2124
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:21,270
value of gold for your retirement goal

2125
01:45:24,920 --> 01:45:23,010
has outperformed paper investments yet

2126
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:24,930
no word about IRAs if you would like to

2127
01:45:37,930 --> 01:45:44,700
[Music]

2128
01:45:52,990 --> 01:45:48,339
welcome back to the pair against the

2129
01:46:00,759 --> 01:45:53,000
gold standard of paranormal radio and

2130
01:46:02,500 --> 01:46:00,769
now here's Jane Steinberg so we have a

2131
01:46:05,259 --> 01:46:02,510
question a couple of questions on the

2132
01:46:06,490 --> 01:46:05,269
table from our friend Blowfish who lives

2133
01:46:08,649 --> 01:46:06,500
on the other side of the world by the

2134
01:46:11,140 --> 01:46:08,659
way loyal listeners of the Parekh acid

2135
01:46:14,379 --> 01:46:11,150
that's a good question you know that

2136
01:46:18,220 --> 01:46:14,389
whole area of the San Juan

2137
01:46:21,430 --> 01:46:18,230
Arriba County has lots of aquifers

2138
01:46:24,580 --> 01:46:21,440
because you know lots of the water

2139
01:46:28,779 --> 01:46:24,590
coming from the Navajo Lake northwest of

2140
01:46:31,569 --> 01:46:28,789
there are being transferred to the

2141
01:46:35,009 --> 01:46:31,579
cities like Albuquerque and so on and

2142
01:46:38,529 --> 01:46:35,019
they have built lots of underground

2143
01:46:41,529 --> 01:46:38,539
waterways passing through places like

2144
01:46:44,350 --> 01:46:41,539
Chama and and then going down south

2145
01:46:47,859 --> 01:46:44,360
towards Albuquerque and so on so there's

2146
01:46:51,220 --> 01:46:47,869
lots of you know aquifers underground so

2147
01:46:53,500 --> 01:46:51,230
well anything is possible now let's look

2148
01:46:57,189 --> 01:46:53,510
at an interesting place called the

2149
01:47:00,580 --> 01:46:57,199
dulcet lake right outside of those that

2150
01:47:04,240 --> 01:47:00,590
there have been no reports of you know

2151
01:47:10,089 --> 01:47:04,250
people encountering some strange things

2152
01:47:13,419 --> 01:47:10,099
near there like an object actually in

2153
01:47:16,049 --> 01:47:13,429
fact as recently as last year I think as

2154
01:47:19,359 --> 01:47:16,059
you mentioned Chris Howard a liason

2155
01:47:22,180 --> 01:47:19,369
actually has a photograph of Doce Lake

2156
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:22,190
it looks like it's been world there's a

2157
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:25,760
world on the lake that suddenly appeared

2158
01:47:33,790 --> 01:47:30,530
and so it's not surprising to dispatch

2159
01:47:36,819 --> 01:47:33,800
late that there could be some underwater

2160
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:36,829
you know passageways there in that whole

2161
01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:41,090
area but to say that you know this whole

2162
01:47:48,160 --> 01:47:44,690
system extends throughout the Southwest

2163
01:47:52,029 --> 01:47:48,170
I'm not sure I'm not sure but there have

2164
01:47:54,250 --> 01:47:52,039
been reports in the past that there are

2165
01:47:55,180 --> 01:47:54,260
underground connections from China Lake

2166
01:47:57,250 --> 01:47:55,190
naval

2167
01:48:00,430 --> 01:47:57,260
and centered in California desert that

2168
01:48:03,220 --> 01:48:00,440
is connected in the underground passage

2169
01:48:05,050 --> 01:48:03,230
to the Southern California's coast and

2170
01:48:08,979 --> 01:48:05,060
so on you know if you hear of these

2171
01:48:11,500 --> 01:48:08,989
reports so everything anything is

2172
01:48:15,580 --> 01:48:11,510
possible but we just don't seem to find

2173
01:48:19,140 --> 01:48:15,590
a definitive documentary proof but

2174
01:48:23,340 --> 01:48:19,150
nevertheless yes the whole area is

2175
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:23,350
interesting in the fact that yes the

2176
01:48:27,790 --> 01:48:24,650
1967

2177
01:48:32,610 --> 01:48:27,800
underground atomic testing there may

2178
01:48:38,200 --> 01:48:32,620
have changed the underground you know

2179
01:48:41,380 --> 01:48:38,210
geological uh the the characteristics of

2180
01:48:45,189 --> 01:48:41,390
that area you know it may not have been

2181
01:48:47,170 --> 01:48:45,199
necessarily conducted to to East the

2182
01:48:50,130 --> 01:48:47,180
flow of natural gas they may have been

2183
01:48:53,979 --> 01:48:50,140
other motives so in fact a Howard

2184
01:49:00,600 --> 01:48:53,989
Eliason belief that they exploded that

2185
01:49:04,750 --> 01:49:00,610
thing to - as a precaution against

2186
01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:04,760
increase in entities on the ground in

2187
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:07,850
that area you know so this is all

2188
01:49:12,729 --> 01:49:10,250
fascinating to me Chris you want to pick

2189
01:49:14,229 --> 01:49:12,739
up on the questions no I have a couple

2190
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:14,239
of other questions here that I think are

2191
01:49:20,439 --> 01:49:15,770
very interesting that you're gonna get a

2192
01:49:23,020 --> 01:49:20,449
kick out of from pixel Smith now this is

2193
01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:23,030
a little bit off-topic but do you think

2194
01:49:27,820 --> 01:49:25,610
that microchip implant implantation

2195
01:49:29,410 --> 01:49:27,830
technology in which tiny microchips

2196
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:29,420
could be implanted in our circulatory

2197
01:49:35,590 --> 01:49:31,930
systems vital organs and tissues are

2198
01:49:39,790 --> 01:49:35,600
being implemented via swine and avian

2199
01:49:42,130 --> 01:49:39,800
flu vaccinations and do you think that

2200
01:49:45,130 --> 01:49:42,140
this current global economic crisis is a

2201
01:49:47,890 --> 01:49:45,140
precursor to an alien takeover or a new

2202
01:49:49,810 --> 01:49:47,900
world order well as this is an

2203
01:49:51,670 --> 01:49:49,820
interesting speculation I mean a lot of

2204
01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:51,680
strange things have been happening

2205
01:49:57,910 --> 01:49:55,760
you know this year that that is out of

2206
01:49:59,590 --> 01:49:57,920
the ordinary and although people say

2207
01:50:02,500 --> 01:49:59,600
that you know earthquakes are very

2208
01:50:06,690 --> 01:50:02,510
common you know there have been

2209
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:06,700
earthquakes in unexpected areas

2210
01:50:13,480 --> 01:50:11,090
this year you know including places like

2211
01:50:15,430 --> 01:50:13,490
Virginia and you know other places yes

2212
01:50:17,470 --> 01:50:15,440
earthquakes have happened hundreds of

2213
01:50:19,360 --> 01:50:17,480
years ago in these areas but there's a

2214
01:50:22,810 --> 01:50:19,370
lot of people say it's nothing strange

2215
01:50:25,090 --> 01:50:22,820
but I think the what is interesting is

2216
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:25,100
the this year that there has been the

2217
01:50:33,670 --> 01:50:29,930
very unusual you know catastrophes

2218
01:50:37,540 --> 01:50:33,680
around the world and you know

2219
01:50:39,610 --> 01:50:37,550
let's take example locally in New Mexico

2220
01:50:44,260 --> 01:50:39,620
yes there have been earthquakes before

2221
01:50:48,840 --> 01:50:44,270
but recent earthquakes near the Colorado

2222
01:50:54,310 --> 01:50:48,850
a New Mexico State Line like Trinidad

2223
01:50:57,040 --> 01:50:54,320
Raton area and north of Santa Fe you

2224
01:51:01,990 --> 01:50:57,050
know even though it's a like a 4.0

2225
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:02,000
earthquake it's is very unusual yes

2226
01:51:07,450 --> 01:51:03,770
there have been earthquakes you know a

2227
01:51:10,630 --> 01:51:07,460
hundred years ago in this area but there

2228
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:10,640
has been a swarm of earthquakes in

2229
01:51:17,650 --> 01:51:12,530
southern colored and northern New Mexico

2230
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:17,660
in the past two months and so yeah there

2231
01:51:23,020 --> 01:51:20,690
was another swarm in 2001 and 2002 as

2232
01:51:25,380 --> 01:51:23,030
well in a very geologically stable area

2233
01:51:27,820 --> 01:51:25,390
but the question is do you think that

2234
01:51:32,140 --> 01:51:27,830
microchip technology and nanotechnology

2235
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:32,150
is being implemented in vaccinations

2236
01:51:38,290 --> 01:51:33,770
that say swine flu or avian flu

2237
01:51:39,370 --> 01:51:38,300
vaccinations I think it's I think it's

2238
01:51:43,030 --> 01:51:39,380
anybody's guess

2239
01:51:46,450 --> 01:51:43,040
but you know I have told people that the

2240
01:51:52,980 --> 01:51:46,460
US had a technology before or in the mid

2241
01:51:56,830 --> 01:51:52,990
nineties the of possible injection of

2242
01:51:59,560 --> 01:51:56,840
microchips without even you one person

2243
01:52:04,410 --> 01:51:59,570
realizing yeah maybe it's in the it

2244
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:04,420
could be in like a circulatory system so

2245
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:07,370
you know I think that we can

2246
01:52:16,120 --> 01:52:11,330
underestimate the technology that is

2247
01:52:17,220 --> 01:52:16,130
present today and so some people say

2248
01:52:20,270 --> 01:52:17,230
that

2249
01:52:22,979 --> 01:52:20,280
they there will be a globalised

2250
01:52:28,410 --> 01:52:22,989
governmental entity in the next few

2251
01:52:32,310 --> 01:52:28,420
years and are getting ready to do a lot

2252
01:52:35,310 --> 01:52:32,320
of things so this scenario I would say

2253
01:52:39,150 --> 01:52:35,320
is not impossible anything is possible

2254
01:52:42,300 --> 01:52:39,160
with the advance in technology as you

2255
01:52:46,200 --> 01:52:42,310
mentioned well I don't know you

2256
01:52:50,340 --> 01:52:46,210
mentioned this or not but the Ministry

2257
01:52:55,410 --> 01:52:50,350
of Defense in Japan just a few months

2258
01:53:00,500 --> 01:52:55,420
ago created this unmanned circular

2259
01:53:06,350 --> 01:53:00,510
sphere that can go very fast and quiet

2260
01:53:10,530 --> 01:53:06,360
you can check that out on YouTube it's

2261
01:53:13,530 --> 01:53:10,540
it's a it's a like a drone but it's the

2262
01:53:17,070 --> 01:53:13,540
size of a basketball that makes

2263
01:53:21,780 --> 01:53:17,080
absolutely no noise but can fly at will

2264
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:21,790
through remote control and you know this

2265
01:53:27,090 --> 01:53:23,530
is just the tip of the iceberg of what

2266
01:53:30,979 --> 01:53:27,100
the state of art in technology so yes I

2267
01:53:33,420 --> 01:53:30,989
think it's possible that somehow tiny

2268
01:53:34,620 --> 01:53:33,430
microchips which have become even

2269
01:53:37,860 --> 01:53:34,630
smaller than before

2270
01:53:40,310 --> 01:53:37,870
could be injected to a person

2271
01:53:44,550 --> 01:53:40,320
unwittingly

2272
01:53:47,670 --> 01:53:44,560
into a part of the body so you know this

2273
01:53:52,220 --> 01:53:47,680
is all possible in and that's why I

2274
01:53:54,750 --> 01:53:52,230
cannot discount any speculation that

2275
01:54:00,360 --> 01:53:54,760
maybe we're getting ready for some kind

2276
01:54:04,380 --> 01:54:00,370
of you know global entity r2 to solve

2277
01:54:08,370 --> 01:54:04,390
you know global crisis or even create a

2278
01:54:11,010 --> 01:54:08,380
series of crises as we go into next year

2279
01:54:12,510 --> 01:54:11,020
well that leads to my next question this

2280
01:54:16,229 --> 01:54:12,520
is from digital trickster who is a

2281
01:54:19,290 --> 01:54:16,239
fairly new participant here in the forum

2282
01:54:21,090 --> 01:54:19,300
community at the pair cast and he says

2283
01:54:23,670 --> 01:54:21,100
if the government or the US or

2284
01:54:26,580 --> 01:54:23,680
governments of the world do stage an ET

2285
01:54:28,680 --> 01:54:26,590
invasion or a rival event to manipulate

2286
01:54:30,209 --> 01:54:28,690
us what kind of scenario do you think

2287
01:54:30,970 --> 01:54:30,219
they would try to create now you

2288
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:30,980
mentioned

2289
01:54:36,670 --> 01:54:33,530
holographic you possible holographic

2290
01:54:39,280 --> 01:54:36,680
projections that gave bald as suspected

2291
01:54:41,680 --> 01:54:39,290
and possibly even witnessed do you think

2292
01:54:44,530 --> 01:54:41,690
that that the government is planning to

2293
01:54:46,750 --> 01:54:44,540
stage like a fake Project Blue Beam and

2294
01:54:48,190 --> 01:54:46,760
ET invasion and in what sort of a

2295
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:48,200
scenario do you think they try to create

2296
01:54:54,430 --> 01:54:51,410
well this is uh if they do this it has

2297
01:54:57,070 --> 01:54:54,440
to be a large-scale so I don't know if

2298
01:55:00,820 --> 01:54:57,080
they can completely do a completely

2299
01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:00,830
global scale a scenario which some

2300
01:55:07,420 --> 01:55:04,970
people you know think that they could do

2301
01:55:09,810 --> 01:55:07,430
but I think that if they do it it will

2302
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:09,820
be on a such a huge scale that

2303
01:55:16,030 --> 01:55:12,890
logistically I think they will have some

2304
01:55:18,640 --> 01:55:16,040
problems so if such a scenario were to

2305
01:55:23,190 --> 01:55:18,650
occur it would probably occur in

2306
01:55:26,740 --> 01:55:23,200
different areas of the world you know

2307
01:55:32,530 --> 01:55:26,750
are on the same time but not you know

2308
01:55:33,760 --> 01:55:32,540
one whole incident may be a series I'll

2309
01:55:35,500 --> 01:55:33,770
tell you what we have so much more to

2310
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talk about your with Jeanne and Chris

2311
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that's the para cast dot-com or check us

2411
02:00:18,050 --> 02:00:15,940
okay Norio Hayakawa is joining us

2412
02:00:20,540 --> 02:00:18,060
unfortunately he also has to leave us

2413
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:20,550
it's one of those things where I guess

2414
02:00:24,410 --> 02:00:22,890
he has a prior engagement norio tell our

2415
02:00:25,580 --> 02:00:24,420
listeners where they can find more of

2416
02:00:28,580 --> 02:00:25,590
the things you write about

2417
02:00:31,940 --> 02:00:28,590
well actually anybody can look me up on

2418
02:00:36,650 --> 02:00:31,950
Facebook I'm on the Facebook and then

2419
02:00:44,510 --> 02:00:36,660
also I have a my blog site called Norio

2420
02:00:47,000 --> 02:00:44,520
Hayakawa 2012 dot blog spot.com and it

2421
02:00:49,430 --> 02:00:47,010
was a privilege to be here even though I

2422
02:00:53,060 --> 02:00:49,440
have to leave now but anyways thank you

2423
02:00:54,530 --> 02:00:53,070
so much Chris Young and sorry you have

2424
02:00:56,270 --> 02:00:54,540
to leave but we definitely want to get

2425
02:00:57,650 --> 02:00:56,280
you back on the air we were just really

2426
02:01:00,080 --> 02:00:57,660
getting warmed up there's a lot of

2427
02:01:02,690 --> 02:01:00,090
questions that our listeners have and of

2428
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:02,700
course Gina and I have and it's it's

2429
02:01:05,990 --> 02:01:03,930
been a pleasure having you on the show

2430
02:01:10,430 --> 02:01:06,000
and we're looking forward to you return

2431
02:01:12,620 --> 02:01:10,440
visit thank you very much so Norio

2432
02:01:14,270 --> 02:01:12,630
Hayakawa has left the building it's kind

2433
02:01:15,860 --> 02:01:14,280
of unfortunate because we had more

2434
02:01:17,720 --> 02:01:15,870
questions from listeners we're just

2435
02:01:19,310 --> 02:01:17,730
getting warmed up and there you go in

2436
02:01:21,500 --> 02:01:19,320
there he's gone yeah you know of course

2437
02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:21,510
any guests that I invite I make sure

2438
02:01:25,160 --> 02:01:23,010
that they can do the full two hours uh

2439
02:01:27,050 --> 02:01:25,170
but well I guess we'll just have to have

2440
02:01:29,180 --> 02:01:27,060
him back on and have some more fun I

2441
02:01:31,580 --> 02:01:29,190
mean I I learned some things today I

2442
02:01:32,810 --> 02:01:31,590
mean this fascinating episode I think

2443
02:01:34,310 --> 02:01:32,820
we're gonna get pretty interesting

2444
02:01:35,870 --> 02:01:34,320
response on the forums from our

2445
02:01:38,210 --> 02:01:35,880
listeners and the one thing of course

2446
02:01:39,770 --> 02:01:38,220
that I was interested in here I hope we

2447
02:01:43,280 --> 02:01:39,780
didn't upset him when I started

2448
02:01:45,380 --> 02:01:43,290
basically questioning John Lear as a

2449
02:01:46,520 --> 02:01:45,390
reliable source that bothers me you know

2450
02:01:48,320 --> 02:01:46,530
it's got a lot of stories about

2451
02:01:50,480 --> 02:01:48,330
different things I know you've known him

2452
02:01:52,970 --> 02:01:50,490
for a while but as soon as he invokes

2453
02:01:55,520 --> 02:01:52,980
the name of John Lear I have to sit back

2454
02:01:58,130 --> 02:01:55,530
and say what are we talking about here

2455
02:02:00,080 --> 02:01:58,140
now John Lear of course is you know one

2456
02:02:02,360 --> 02:02:00,090
of the sons of the guy who created the

2457
02:02:04,700 --> 02:02:02,370
Lear Jets and everything and you know

2458
02:02:07,220 --> 02:02:04,710
has some real credentials but it also

2459
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:07,230
says lots and lots of wacky crazy things

2460
02:02:12,950 --> 02:02:11,250
well I think a lot of the especially you

2461
02:02:16,220 --> 02:02:12,960
know being in the Vegas area like he is

2462
02:02:19,220 --> 02:02:16,230
I think a lot of the sort of myth making

2463
02:02:21,440 --> 02:02:19,230
that is surrounded the area 51 story bob

2464
02:02:24,470 --> 02:02:21,450
lazar and that whole scenario that

2465
02:02:26,310 --> 02:02:24,480
unfolded in late 80's early 90's it does

2466
02:02:27,600 --> 02:02:26,320
point directly back to Lear

2467
02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:27,610
think he was the first one to really

2468
02:02:31,140 --> 02:02:29,650
befriend Lazar and convinced him to come

2469
02:02:32,939 --> 02:02:31,150
out and speak with George Knapp and

2470
02:02:34,439 --> 02:02:32,949
other things I might be wrong in some of

2471
02:02:36,839 --> 02:02:34,449
my details there but I know he was

2472
02:02:37,620 --> 02:02:36,849
involved in that whole scenario from the

2473
02:02:40,260 --> 02:02:37,630
very beginning

2474
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:40,270
like any good disinformation however

2475
02:02:46,290 --> 02:02:43,050
with proper filtering you're able to

2476
02:02:49,140 --> 02:02:46,300
glean the truth that is wrapped around

2477
02:02:51,300 --> 02:02:49,150
the actual lives with disinformation so

2478
02:02:54,120 --> 02:02:51,310
it's a baby in the bath water type

2479
02:02:56,399 --> 02:02:54,130
scenario the leer hypothesis which he

2480
02:02:59,069 --> 02:02:56,409
trotted out in crest stone of all places

2481
02:03:00,839 --> 02:02:59,079
in the San Luis Valley where I lived two

2482
02:03:03,810 --> 02:03:00,849
years before I moved there we had a

2483
02:03:06,689 --> 02:03:03,820
small informal conference the Lear

2484
02:03:09,270 --> 02:03:06,699
hypothesis has gone on to to influence

2485
02:03:11,729 --> 02:03:09,280
the pop culture thinking around a lot of

2486
02:03:14,850 --> 02:03:11,739
these events very dramatically and if

2487
02:03:17,520 --> 02:03:14,860
you look at Dulce if you look at area 51

2488
02:03:20,760 --> 02:03:17,530
and if you look at other conspiracy

2489
02:03:23,760 --> 02:03:20,770
tinged to stories from that era a lot of

2490
02:03:26,160 --> 02:03:23,770
it does point back to John Lear so I

2491
02:03:29,550 --> 02:03:26,170
know noyo has known him for years and

2492
02:03:32,970 --> 02:03:29,560
and and can appreciate some of Lear's

2493
02:03:34,649 --> 02:03:32,980
insights but anyone who would be

2494
02:03:37,979 --> 02:03:34,659
involved with William Cooper or Bill

2495
02:03:40,080 --> 02:03:37,989
Cooper and an egg him on you have to

2496
02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:40,090
question the motives I certainly would

2497
02:03:44,069 --> 02:03:42,010
like someone like John Lear on this show

2498
02:03:46,530 --> 02:03:44,079
to answer the hard questions and provide

2499
02:03:48,390 --> 02:03:46,540
evidence well that's like I might be

2500
02:03:52,500 --> 02:03:48,400
able to make that happen okay

2501
02:03:56,399 --> 02:03:52,510
well you have your assignment to accept

2502
02:03:58,560 --> 02:03:56,409
it is we get John Lear on the power cast

2503
02:04:00,990 --> 02:03:58,570
but we do it far enough in advance so

2504
02:04:03,140 --> 02:04:01,000
listeners have a chance to really ask

2505
02:04:06,330 --> 02:04:03,150
the tough questions and no-holds-barred

2506
02:04:08,100 --> 02:04:06,340
yo well let's put him on the pair casts

2507
02:04:10,229 --> 02:04:08,110
Potsie well okay

2508
02:04:12,540 --> 02:04:10,239
you know John Lear what is your take I

2509
02:04:15,720 --> 02:04:12,550
don't know John Lear I've kind of made

2510
02:04:19,890 --> 02:04:15,730
it my business not to ever okay so you

2511
02:04:22,500 --> 02:04:19,900
don't know okay so okay so why don't you

2512
02:04:26,669 --> 02:04:22,510
explain that why have you made it one of

2513
02:04:30,899 --> 02:04:26,679
your goals in life not to meet him well

2514
02:04:32,609 --> 02:04:30,909
he and a number of people who have over

2515
02:04:36,419 --> 02:04:32,619
the years been suspected of being

2516
02:04:38,490 --> 02:04:36,429
disinformation agents on to some extent

2517
02:04:39,180 --> 02:04:38,500
or a level or another you know I've had

2518
02:04:41,250 --> 02:04:39,190
a hard enough

2519
02:04:42,630 --> 02:04:41,260
in my personal investigative process

2520
02:04:45,120 --> 02:04:42,640
dealing with people that are on the

2521
02:04:48,270 --> 02:04:45,130
level to throw that particular bunch

2522
02:04:51,300 --> 02:04:48,280
into the mix it just you know it would

2523
02:04:54,150 --> 02:04:51,310
it would be difficult for me to to wade

2524
02:04:56,580 --> 02:04:54,160
through some of that information I think

2525
02:04:57,840 --> 02:04:56,590
in in a radio show format I I would be

2526
02:04:59,790 --> 02:04:57,850
more than willing in fact I wouldn't

2527
02:05:01,830 --> 02:04:59,800
look forward to it but personally

2528
02:05:04,590 --> 02:05:01,840
contacting some of these people Richard

2529
02:05:06,330 --> 02:05:04,600
Doty Dan Smith I mean I could list out a

2530
02:05:07,530 --> 02:05:06,340
whole bunch of names of people that have

2531
02:05:10,140 --> 02:05:07,540
been associated with this information

2532
02:05:11,850 --> 02:05:10,150
over the years by rumor or whatever I

2533
02:05:14,490 --> 02:05:11,860
can't novice ly demonstrate any of that

2534
02:05:17,280 --> 02:05:14,500
but yeah you ever think Chris that some

2535
02:05:19,229 --> 02:05:17,290
of these people are pretenders they want

2536
02:05:21,240 --> 02:05:19,239
to be spies they are would be spies

2537
02:05:23,550 --> 02:05:21,250
maybe they saw too many James Bond

2538
02:05:26,340 --> 02:05:23,560
movies as kids maybe they read all the

2539
02:05:28,860 --> 02:05:26,350
was 1112 novels that Ian Fleming wrote

2540
02:05:30,810 --> 02:05:28,870
of James Bond of course had been what

2541
02:05:33,180 --> 02:05:30,820
they'll be 23 movies after the next one

2542
02:05:35,700 --> 02:05:33,190
is made if it's made no okay so maybe

2543
02:05:38,370 --> 02:05:35,710
they are wannabes they hope to be spies

2544
02:05:40,560 --> 02:05:38,380
they watch The Man From UNCLE as kids

2545
02:05:43,410 --> 02:05:40,570
and now they grow up and say well I was

2546
02:05:45,930 --> 02:05:43,420
in the military I must be a spy well

2547
02:05:47,939 --> 02:05:45,940
yeah I think that that that holds true

2548
02:05:49,560 --> 02:05:47,949
for for quite a number of people out

2549
02:05:51,510 --> 02:05:49,570
there who most of us have never heard of

2550
02:05:53,370 --> 02:05:51,520
and probably never will but when you

2551
02:05:58,050 --> 02:05:53,380
start throwing the names of Rick Doty

2552
02:05:59,640 --> 02:05:58,060
bill Moore John Lear Robert Collins I

2553
02:06:01,380 --> 02:05:59,650
mean there's a whole list of people out

2554
02:06:03,689 --> 02:06:01,390
there that that you know they're not

2555
02:06:05,400 --> 02:06:03,699
only do they have credentials but but

2556
02:06:07,280 --> 02:06:05,410
they have track records I mean John Lear

2557
02:06:09,630 --> 02:06:07,290
I think is it still holds the record for

2558
02:06:12,030 --> 02:06:09,640
for being certified on more airplanes

2559
02:06:14,910 --> 02:06:12,040
than any other living human I think at

2560
02:06:16,500 --> 02:06:14,920
one point he worked as a pilot for air

2561
02:06:19,260 --> 02:06:16,510
America of course which was a cut-out

2562
02:06:21,630 --> 02:06:19,270
Organization for the CIA so you're not

2563
02:06:23,250 --> 02:06:21,640
talking about just some you know kids

2564
02:06:25,800 --> 02:06:23,260
that are aspiring to be spies I mean

2565
02:06:27,330 --> 02:06:25,810
these guys have a track record so you

2566
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:27,340
know I tend to stay away from the spooky

2567
02:06:33,209 --> 02:06:30,250
types as much as possible but but for

2568
02:06:36,510 --> 02:06:33,219
eugene and for the para cast I'll have

2569
02:06:38,550 --> 02:06:36,520
I'll have at it I don't think it Hurst

2570
02:06:40,709 --> 02:06:38,560
have a spooky type every so often I

2571
02:06:42,540 --> 02:06:40,719
think we need a perspective well I was

2572
02:06:44,370 --> 02:06:42,550
bummed that Richard Doty said he'd do

2573
02:06:46,200 --> 02:06:44,380
the show and then the last minute he

2574
02:06:48,270 --> 02:06:46,210
backed out on us well he said that

2575
02:06:51,240 --> 02:06:48,280
before you know he kind of strings you

2576
02:06:51,629 --> 02:06:51,250
along and any sort of you know says I'm

2577
02:06:54,359 --> 02:06:51,639
like

2578
02:06:56,669 --> 02:06:54,369
to do it I know that for example we had

2579
02:06:59,129 --> 02:06:56,679
Robert Collins on the show and he didn't

2580
02:07:01,679 --> 02:06:59,139
like what we said about him and asked

2581
02:07:03,359 --> 02:07:01,689
for rebuttal time we gave him a 60

2582
02:07:07,319 --> 02:07:03,369
second rebuttal listen to this this is

2583
02:07:09,319 --> 02:07:07,329
going back to 2006 2007 we gave him the

2584
02:07:12,270 --> 02:07:09,329
60 second rebuttal that made no sense

2585
02:07:15,929 --> 02:07:12,280
and I've had some interactions with him

2586
02:07:17,549 --> 02:07:15,939
an email that made less sense so I don't

2587
02:07:19,469 --> 02:07:17,559
know about Robert Collins but you know

2588
02:07:22,469 --> 02:07:19,479
just because somebody's in the military

2589
02:07:24,839 --> 02:07:22,479
and we have to of course honor their

2590
02:07:25,819 --> 02:07:24,849
service but it doesn't mean they're not

2591
02:07:28,620 --> 02:07:25,829
wacky

2592
02:07:31,770 --> 02:07:28,630
well the whole serpo thing that Dodie

2593
02:07:34,439 --> 02:07:31,780
and Collins and and some others that I

2594
02:07:36,600 --> 02:07:34,449
won't mention have been touting since I

2595
02:07:39,509 --> 02:07:36,610
think what 2004 something whenever that

2596
02:07:41,489 --> 02:07:39,519
story broke of course the you know the

2597
02:07:45,020 --> 02:07:41,499
Project Camelot folks were the the

2598
02:07:47,819 --> 02:07:45,030
primary disseminators of that whole

2599
02:07:50,100 --> 02:07:47,829
interesting scenario let's just like

2600
02:07:51,569 --> 02:07:50,110
flee summarize this because we raise

2601
02:07:54,509 --> 02:07:51,579
this subject we might as well mention

2602
02:07:57,209 --> 02:07:54,519
because the people from Project Camelot

2603
02:08:00,029 --> 02:07:57,219
came on here to talk about serpo it's

2604
02:08:02,100 --> 02:08:00,039
back in 2006 we're finding our way going

2605
02:08:04,709 --> 02:08:02,110
through the morass of the UFO field

2606
02:08:07,620 --> 02:08:04,719
trying to find out this is you know as

2607
02:08:10,549 --> 02:08:07,630
down and dirty as it gets and it's a

2608
02:08:13,649 --> 02:08:10,559
story about the military making a deal

2609
02:08:17,310 --> 02:08:13,659
kind of like an exchange program with et

2610
02:08:21,330 --> 02:08:17,320
and then you read this material where

2611
02:08:22,709 --> 02:08:21,340
the soldiers from earth go to this other

2612
02:08:23,850 --> 02:08:22,719
planet and let me tell you what I think

2613
02:08:30,390 --> 02:08:23,860
about that in a moment

2614
02:08:34,850 --> 02:08:32,629
[Music]

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2673
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2674
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2678
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2679
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2680
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2681
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2682
02:11:37,379 --> 02:11:33,769
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2684
02:11:42,339 --> 02:11:40,459
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2685
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2686
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2687
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2689
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2690
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2694
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2695
02:12:10,569 --> 02:12:08,419
we want to know how do you use WebEx

2696
02:12:12,100 --> 02:12:10,579
last week I started a meeting on my

2697
02:12:13,389 --> 02:12:12,110
office computer they had to go across

2698
02:12:15,669 --> 02:12:13,399
town for another meeting

2699
02:12:18,009 --> 02:12:15,679
so Mike drove and I was able to finish

2700
02:12:20,290 --> 02:12:18,019
my WebEx meeting using the WebEx app on

2701
02:12:22,540 --> 02:12:20,300
my smartphone this is how you do

2702
02:12:24,250 --> 02:12:22,550
business connect online and share what's

2703
02:12:27,129 --> 02:12:24,260
on your computer screen with others

2704
02:12:29,169 --> 02:12:27,139
anytime anywhere on their desktop on

2705
02:12:32,409 --> 02:12:29,179
their laptop or mobile device go to

2706
02:12:33,310 --> 02:12:32,419
WebEx comm right now and try WebEx free

2707
02:12:41,050 --> 02:12:33,320
WebEx

2708
02:12:46,700 --> 02:12:44,209
hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

2709
02:12:53,600 --> 02:12:46,710
you're listening to the podcast the gold

2710
02:12:56,450 --> 02:12:53,610
standard of paranormal radio we have

2711
02:12:59,780 --> 02:12:56,460
raised the terrible specter of project

2712
02:13:02,270 --> 02:12:59,790
servo on the panel yes with G noise me

2713
02:13:05,000 --> 02:13:02,280
and my mouth you started it Chris and

2714
02:13:07,280 --> 02:13:05,010
now I'm going alright I'll make it

2715
02:13:09,979 --> 02:13:07,290
simple make it fast alright alright so

2716
02:13:12,500 --> 02:13:09,989
just just just mention the closing scene

2717
02:13:15,919 --> 02:13:12,510
in Close Encounters the Spielberg movie

2718
02:13:18,979 --> 02:13:15,929
where the the jumpsuit clad team of

2719
02:13:22,160 --> 02:13:18,989
sunglass wear and OOP onto the ship and

2720
02:13:23,839 --> 02:13:22,170
gets sent off into this to the cosmos in

2721
02:13:27,890 --> 02:13:23,849
spirit Richard Dreyfuss really went

2722
02:13:31,879 --> 02:13:27,900
before he played in the movie w Dick

2723
02:13:34,490 --> 02:13:31,889
Cheney he went to see et okay so you

2724
02:13:37,370 --> 02:13:34,500
take the scene and you project it okay

2725
02:13:39,859 --> 02:13:37,380
they're on the other planet but you know

2726
02:13:41,629 --> 02:13:39,869
it's like a twelve-year-old writes his

2727
02:13:44,120 --> 02:13:41,639
first science fiction novel about

2728
02:13:46,970 --> 02:13:44,130
visiting aliens and all he cares about

2729
02:13:48,319 --> 02:13:46,980
is how they do their bathroom movements

2730
02:13:51,290 --> 02:13:48,329
I'm serious

2731
02:13:53,959 --> 02:13:51,300
that's what so much focused on their

2732
02:13:56,120 --> 02:13:53,969
bathroom habits of the aliens and how

2733
02:13:58,790 --> 02:13:56,130
they felt the bathroom habits of

2734
02:14:00,589 --> 02:13:58,800
Earthlings were so silly don't get me

2735
02:14:03,800 --> 02:14:00,599
started but that's Howard read to me was

2736
02:14:06,229 --> 02:14:03,810
the twelve-year-old boys viewpoint of

2737
02:14:08,959 --> 02:14:06,239
writing science fiction except for the

2738
02:14:10,729 --> 02:14:08,969
twelve-year-old that we spawned here my

2739
02:14:12,830 --> 02:14:10,739
son Grayson who started writing science

2740
02:14:14,990 --> 02:14:12,840
fiction with me at 12 but he was way

2741
02:14:18,140 --> 02:14:15,000
beyond that and never got that silly ooh

2742
02:14:20,629 --> 02:14:18,150
ouch ooh boy that was a smack down there

2743
02:14:23,270 --> 02:14:20,639
Jean my son wrote real science fiction

2744
02:14:26,390 --> 02:14:23,280
with me okay and still is working on

2745
02:14:27,950 --> 02:14:26,400
stuff with me now but I'm a 12 year old

2746
02:14:30,050 --> 02:14:27,960
could do a better job than the serpo

2747
02:14:32,030 --> 02:14:30,060
scenario that that's a smackdown

2748
02:14:34,040 --> 02:14:32,040
you're darn right but it's true I read

2749
02:14:37,310 --> 02:14:34,050
that stuff that was the worst drivel I

2750
02:14:39,290 --> 02:14:37,320
ever read well you know with all respect

2751
02:14:43,250 --> 02:14:39,300
to captain Collins and his Lea his

2752
02:14:45,800 --> 02:14:43,260
service I admire that I admire that that

2753
02:14:50,020 --> 02:14:45,810
he chose to serve his country but to

2754
02:14:54,200 --> 02:14:50,030
come up and promote and promulgate the

2755
02:14:56,720 --> 02:14:54,210
just what seems like so outlandish

2756
02:14:59,600 --> 02:14:56,730
of a scenario and and stick stick to it

2757
02:15:01,550 --> 02:14:59,610
and really defend it and take you know

2758
02:15:04,220 --> 02:15:01,560
take on all comers who are trying to

2759
02:15:06,590 --> 02:15:04,230
point out how you know ridiculous the

2760
02:15:08,600 --> 02:15:06,600
whole scenario appears it just falls

2761
02:15:10,040 --> 02:15:08,610
apart when you really look at it for

2762
02:15:14,330 --> 02:15:10,050
someone like that to support that

2763
02:15:16,370 --> 02:15:14,340
scenario so so stridently to me there's

2764
02:15:18,560 --> 02:15:16,380
something wrong there and and people

2765
02:15:21,520 --> 02:15:18,570
like that yeah I don't want to sound

2766
02:15:25,160 --> 02:15:21,530
dismissive but I have no time for for

2767
02:15:27,979 --> 02:15:25,170
for fantasy and and stuff I'm a myself

2768
02:15:29,630 --> 02:15:27,989
and other people who do have an have

2769
02:15:31,750 --> 02:15:29,640
experience out in the field we don't

2770
02:15:34,340 --> 02:15:31,760
have time for that we we have too much

2771
02:15:36,530 --> 02:15:34,350
reality to deal with as opposed to

2772
02:15:38,600 --> 02:15:36,540
fantasy so there you go project serpo

2773
02:15:40,370 --> 02:15:38,610
that's why we disbelieve it we wonder

2774
02:15:42,530 --> 02:15:40,380
about people like Robert Collins and

2775
02:15:45,410 --> 02:15:42,540
Richard Doty now there was a book that

2776
02:15:48,979 --> 02:15:45,420
came out from Collins that's supposedly

2777
02:15:50,840 --> 02:15:48,989
Doty co-authored except when I asked

2778
02:15:52,400 --> 02:15:50,850
Dodie he said oh no no I just wrote some

2779
02:15:55,310 --> 02:15:52,410
material for it I didn't want him to

2780
02:15:58,340 --> 02:15:55,320
list me as co-author duh I'm gobsmacked

2781
02:16:00,380 --> 02:15:58,350
yeah or I'd like to smack him depending

2782
02:16:03,580 --> 02:16:00,390
on your point of view well let's get him

2783
02:16:06,200 --> 02:16:03,590
on the air we'll do an audio smacking I

2784
02:16:08,660 --> 02:16:06,210
don't think he's gonna do it I mean if

2785
02:16:11,330 --> 02:16:08,670
Whitley Strieber will say to us he's

2786
02:16:12,709 --> 02:16:11,340
afraid he didn't say that but that's the

2787
02:16:14,870 --> 02:16:12,719
implication doesn't want to be trashed

2788
02:16:16,910 --> 02:16:14,880
on the power cast doesn't want to come

2789
02:16:19,390 --> 02:16:16,920
on the show I hardly think that Richard

2790
02:16:21,740 --> 02:16:19,400
Doty is gonna come because I think that

2791
02:16:26,479 --> 02:16:21,750
streamer would get a far friendlier

2792
02:16:29,630 --> 02:16:26,489
reception well I have a list of

2793
02:16:30,740 --> 02:16:29,640
questions probably several pages long I

2794
02:16:32,360 --> 02:16:30,750
wouldn't have time for listener

2795
02:16:34,730 --> 02:16:32,370
questions I'd be too busy firing off

2796
02:16:37,339 --> 02:16:34,740
questions of my own I mean that guy he

2797
02:16:41,540 --> 02:16:37,349
just he just seems to pop up in some of

2798
02:16:44,180 --> 02:16:41,550
the most unfortunate instances of this

2799
02:16:46,280 --> 02:16:44,190
information and you know maybe he does

2800
02:16:50,030 --> 02:16:46,290
aspire to be a James Bond type maybe he

2801
02:16:52,219 --> 02:16:50,040
was acting out beyond his the per views

2802
02:16:55,430 --> 02:16:52,229
of his assignments and maybe he was a

2803
02:16:57,110 --> 02:16:55,440
cowboy loose cannon in some of these

2804
02:17:00,620 --> 02:16:57,120
events but the fact that he was involved

2805
02:17:02,629 --> 02:17:00,630
in them at all is is is really

2806
02:17:03,980 --> 02:17:02,639
unfortunate especially when you look at

2807
02:17:06,259 --> 02:17:03,990
someone like Paul bennewitz who

2808
02:17:07,410 --> 02:17:06,269
literally was driven to the insane

2809
02:17:10,620 --> 02:17:07,420
asylum and

2810
02:17:12,599 --> 02:17:10,630
and died a broken man the you know

2811
02:17:13,979 --> 02:17:12,609
you've got to draw the line somewhere I

2812
02:17:17,149 --> 02:17:13,989
understand our country needs

2813
02:17:20,250 --> 02:17:17,159
counterintelligence experts and

2814
02:17:22,620 --> 02:17:20,260
disinformation agents and and and

2815
02:17:25,019 --> 02:17:22,630
whatnot but I mean there's a line that

2816
02:17:26,399 --> 02:17:25,029
you don't cross and and and as far as

2817
02:17:28,769 --> 02:17:26,409
I'm concerned that line has been crossed

2818
02:17:30,750 --> 02:17:28,779
on a number of occasions I don't know

2819
02:17:34,290 --> 02:17:30,760
some of the strange things have gone on

2820
02:17:38,149 --> 02:17:34,300
the UFO field supposedly by people who

2821
02:17:42,500 --> 02:17:38,159
are somehow protecting the nation right

2822
02:17:45,599 --> 02:17:42,510
you know in the the the real

2823
02:17:47,849 --> 02:17:45,609
wet-behind-the-ears naive types that

2824
02:17:50,070 --> 02:17:47,859
come along like a previous guess we had

2825
02:17:51,389 --> 02:17:50,080
Anthony Sanchez who now you know made

2826
02:17:53,009 --> 02:17:51,399
the big announcement a couple of days

2827
02:17:54,540 --> 02:17:53,019
after being on the podcast that he was

2828
02:17:56,639 --> 02:17:54,550
out of the field that he wasn't

2829
02:18:00,419 --> 02:17:56,649
releasing his book that he had these

2830
02:18:01,830 --> 02:18:00,429
tremendously catastrophic personal

2831
02:18:04,439 --> 02:18:01,840
issues he was dealing with and in two

2832
02:18:06,899 --> 02:18:04,449
weeks later he comes back like nothing

2833
02:18:09,990 --> 02:18:06,909
happened and releases his book and and

2834
02:18:12,000 --> 02:18:10,000
now according to Tenorio he's made

2835
02:18:15,330 --> 02:18:12,010
inroads up there with the Tribal Council

2836
02:18:18,450 --> 02:18:15,340
and he's attracted some some support

2837
02:18:19,139 --> 02:18:18,460
from Apache there and he's back at it

2838
02:18:22,320 --> 02:18:19,149
again

2839
02:18:24,389 --> 02:18:22,330
sure like Colonel beef from Tim Beck Lee

2840
02:18:26,910 --> 02:18:24,399
had this character called Colonel be in

2841
02:18:29,040 --> 02:18:26,920
his book so we had Colonel X and Anthony

2842
02:18:30,599 --> 02:18:29,050
Sanchez mention and we gave them a

2843
02:18:32,549 --> 02:18:30,609
little bit of a smacking on the show

2844
02:18:35,160 --> 02:18:32,559
maybe that's why he decided to get out

2845
02:18:37,169 --> 02:18:35,170
but then he decided not to release the

2846
02:18:38,519 --> 02:18:37,179
book as a printed version maybe that's

2847
02:18:40,349 --> 02:18:38,529
changed since then I haven't followed

2848
02:18:44,519 --> 02:18:40,359
this so I think it has I think he's

2849
02:18:46,649 --> 02:18:44,529
getting a you know a book deal okay so

2850
02:18:48,959 --> 02:18:46,659
in the meantime he came up with an ebook

2851
02:18:54,419 --> 02:18:48,969
version and I wrote him and said send it

2852
02:18:57,269 --> 02:18:54,429
to me and I'm still waiting well you

2853
02:18:59,549 --> 02:18:57,279
know it gets to you know back to the the

2854
02:19:03,299 --> 02:18:59,559
basic focus of today's show which was

2855
02:19:07,019 --> 02:19:03,309
the Dulce based rumors and it's people

2856
02:19:10,500 --> 02:19:07,029
like towel of esque and Myrna Hansen and

2857
02:19:13,169 --> 02:19:10,510
you know let Krista Tilton and others

2858
02:19:16,259 --> 02:19:13,179
over the years that have been promoting

2859
02:19:18,269 --> 02:19:16,269
this this story of an alien underground

2860
02:19:21,300 --> 02:19:18,279
base and you have to wonder what the

2861
02:19:22,980 --> 02:19:21,310
motivation is number one obviously you

2862
02:19:24,661 --> 02:19:22,990
need to demonstrate the reality of this

2863
02:19:26,911 --> 02:19:24,671
before we can you know sign off on

2864
02:19:29,100 --> 02:19:26,921
whether it's true or not but you know

2865
02:19:30,331 --> 02:19:29,110
when in doubt assume too mundane and I

2866
02:19:32,640 --> 02:19:30,341
think that there's something much more

2867
02:19:34,890 --> 02:19:32,650
mundane going on there then aliens

2868
02:19:37,350 --> 02:19:34,900
sequestered in a cavern being discovered

2869
02:19:40,110 --> 02:19:37,360
in the 40s by spelunkers for the

2870
02:19:43,081 --> 02:19:40,120
government I it just I don't know you

2871
02:19:46,201 --> 02:19:43,091
know it sounds like an Edgar Rice

2872
02:19:49,230 --> 02:19:46,211
Burroughs or a Jules Verne type scenario

2873
02:19:50,701 --> 02:19:49,240
that's been reworked you know to keep

2874
02:19:52,591 --> 02:19:50,711
everybody looking at the right hand

2875
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:52,601
while the left hand is really involved

2876
02:19:56,671 --> 02:19:54,370
in sudden off area stuff in that area up

2877
02:19:58,741 --> 02:19:56,681
there these were all I think just cover

2878
02:20:00,600 --> 02:19:58,751
stories and and they get someone like an

2879
02:20:02,341 --> 02:20:00,610
Anthony Sanchez who in all good faith

2880
02:20:05,940 --> 02:20:02,351
really thinks he's onto something and

2881
02:20:09,860 --> 02:20:05,950
they just use and manipulate him to to

2882
02:20:12,180 --> 02:20:09,870
help keep the myth alive and growing and

2883
02:20:15,810 --> 02:20:12,190
it's it's up to investigators like

2884
02:20:19,741 --> 02:20:15,820
myself like norio in others gave all des

2885
02:20:21,900 --> 02:20:19,751
arrests his soul to really try to dig

2886
02:20:24,001 --> 02:20:21,910
into this underground base story and

2887
02:20:26,371 --> 02:20:24,011
really expose it as a disinformation

2888
02:20:29,631 --> 02:20:26,381
program which is what I feel it is I'm

2889
02:20:34,400 --> 02:20:29,641
also worried also the gentleman dies and

2890
02:20:37,801 --> 02:20:34,410
norio is ready to start painting weird

2891
02:20:39,511 --> 02:20:37,811
events surrounding the person's death as

2892
02:20:41,701 --> 02:20:39,521
opposed to the fact that people in their

2893
02:20:43,591 --> 02:20:41,711
late 60's do die of natural causes

2894
02:20:47,341 --> 02:20:43,601
what I don't want to think about that

2895
02:20:49,890 --> 02:20:47,351
but it does happen well we need to wait

2896
02:20:52,161 --> 02:20:49,900
for the release of any sort of autopsy

2897
02:20:54,150 --> 02:20:52,171
report because obviously with a death

2898
02:20:56,131 --> 02:20:54,160
unexpected death like that I'm sure an

2899
02:20:58,320 --> 02:20:56,141
autopsy was performed I would be

2900
02:21:00,690 --> 02:20:58,330
surprised if one wasn't especially since

2901
02:21:03,720 --> 02:21:00,700
he was a longtime New Mexico State

2902
02:21:05,581 --> 02:21:03,730
patrolman and in was really held in high

2903
02:21:07,020 --> 02:21:05,591
regard by a lot of people quite a

2904
02:21:10,501 --> 02:21:07,030
hundreds and hundreds of people showed

2905
02:21:14,281 --> 02:21:10,511
up at his funeral I'm also concerned

2906
02:21:16,531 --> 02:21:14,291
about the amazing database and amount of

2907
02:21:19,980 --> 02:21:16,541
research that he did over the years that

2908
02:21:22,081 --> 02:21:19,990
he was meticulous in in you know in

2909
02:21:24,350 --> 02:21:22,091
recording and plus physical evidence I

2910
02:21:26,850 --> 02:21:24,360
mean the spheres that norio talked about

2911
02:21:29,070 --> 02:21:26,860
there's interesting objects that were

2912
02:21:32,011 --> 02:21:29,080
found that kind of suggest military

2913
02:21:33,150 --> 02:21:32,021
activity on the Gomez ranch where the

2914
02:21:34,520 --> 02:21:33,160
mutilations occurred that he

2915
02:21:36,680 --> 02:21:34,530
investigated they found

2916
02:21:38,720 --> 02:21:36,690
a smash they found radar chief they

2917
02:21:42,620 --> 02:21:38,730
found a number of objects which he still

2918
02:21:44,240 --> 02:21:42,630
has in his files and another story that

2919
02:21:46,370 --> 02:21:44,250
was told to me by a researcher who was

2920
02:21:49,520 --> 02:21:46,380
friendly with Paul bennewitz in the

2921
02:21:52,160 --> 02:21:49,530
early 80s said that he had managed to

2922
02:21:55,930 --> 02:21:52,170
get some almost classified level film

2923
02:21:59,060 --> 02:21:55,940
stock that he supplied Benowitz with and

2924
02:22:01,280 --> 02:21:59,070
bennewitz along with a I think an Air

2925
02:22:03,530 --> 02:22:01,290
Force captain Ernest Edwards took a

2926
02:22:05,810 --> 02:22:03,540
flight on a military chopper from

2927
02:22:08,720 --> 02:22:05,820
Kirtland to Dulce and on the way were

2928
02:22:10,430 --> 02:22:08,730
buzzed by a very close I mean the the

2929
02:22:11,990 --> 02:22:10,440
sphere was within five feet of the craft

2930
02:22:14,091 --> 02:22:12,000
and it buzzed the aircraft and they were

2931
02:22:16,640 --> 02:22:14,101
able to get photographs of it on eight

2932
02:22:18,740 --> 02:22:16,650
and a half by eight and a half large

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format film stock I'll tell you what we

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have a lot more in our final segment

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with Jeanne and Chris you're in the para

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eight eight eight two four six zero six

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two three again one eight eight eight

3027
02:26:47,610 --> 02:26:44,910
hi this is Clifford Cliff international

3028
02:26:50,250 --> 02:26:47,620
director for the mutual UFO network you

3029
02:26:56,761 --> 02:26:50,260
are listening to the parrot cast the

3030
02:26:59,220 --> 02:26:56,771
gold standard of paranormal radio so

3031
02:27:04,290 --> 02:26:59,230
Jean and Chris talking shop on the para

3032
02:27:06,570 --> 02:27:04,300
cast we had Norio Hayakawa for what a

3033
02:27:08,780 --> 02:27:06,580
little bit more than half the show but

3034
02:27:13,220 --> 02:27:08,790
he had to go to a previous engagement I

3035
02:27:17,310 --> 02:27:13,230
don't think it was because I hate some

3036
02:27:19,470 --> 02:27:17,320
comments that maybe no John Lear is not

3037
02:27:21,600 --> 02:27:19,480
the most credible person on the planet

3038
02:27:24,030 --> 02:27:21,610
well fine we'll get him on the show

3039
02:27:28,140 --> 02:27:24,040
we'll see we'll get him back no he was a

3040
02:27:32,190 --> 02:27:28,150
good guy he's he's very open he's very

3041
02:27:35,040 --> 02:27:32,200
shrewd he's I think his his insight has

3042
02:27:39,150 --> 02:27:35,050
become very fine-tuned and well honed

3043
02:27:42,180 --> 02:27:39,160
over the years the further along he gets

3044
02:27:44,700 --> 02:27:42,190
in his Dulce investigative work the more

3045
02:27:45,990 --> 02:27:44,710
skeptical he becomes and that's a sign

3046
02:27:48,060 --> 02:27:46,000
of a good investigator and a good

3047
02:27:49,740 --> 02:27:48,070
researcher so I don't think we'll have

3048
02:27:52,080 --> 02:27:49,750
any problem getting Nouriel back on the

3049
02:27:53,940 --> 02:27:52,090
show there's lots of areas that he has

3050
02:27:56,610 --> 02:27:53,950
looked into in his investigative career

3051
02:27:58,921 --> 02:27:56,620
that I'm sure we'll be able to have more

3052
02:28:01,530 --> 02:27:58,931
than enough material to do it a complete

3053
02:28:03,091 --> 02:28:01,540
show this time and also we have a few

3054
02:28:05,370 --> 02:28:03,101
questions from our listeners that were

3055
02:28:08,520 --> 02:28:05,380
not answered exactly so we'll hold them

3056
02:28:11,250 --> 02:28:08,530
in abeyance for Norio Hayakawa part two

3057
02:28:13,171 --> 02:28:11,260
yep and wants to steal about Jesse

3058
02:28:14,330 --> 02:28:13,181
Ventura trying to get in there and film

3059
02:28:18,091 --> 02:28:14,340
and they wouldn't give him permission

3060
02:28:20,131 --> 02:28:18,101
yeah that's news to me I was working

3061
02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:20,141
with the production company of course I

3062
02:28:27,930 --> 02:28:24,370
did a shoot the prior weekend up in Utah

3063
02:28:30,511 --> 02:28:27,940
at the skinwalker ranch site and was

3064
02:28:33,360 --> 02:28:30,521
helping them with the Dulce segment

3065
02:28:34,740 --> 02:28:33,370
which their initial idea going in I

3066
02:28:36,660 --> 02:28:34,750
won't even talk about because it was

3067
02:28:38,610 --> 02:28:36,670
just so outlandish and it would have

3068
02:28:40,620 --> 02:28:38,620
really harmed Jesse's reputation within

3069
02:28:42,900 --> 02:28:40,630
the research community I'm I'm glad I

3070
02:28:46,591 --> 02:28:42,910
was able to put them on to some

3071
02:28:49,261 --> 02:28:46,601
legitimate researchers investigators and

3072
02:28:51,000 --> 02:28:49,271
hickory law enforcement officials but

3073
02:28:51,750 --> 02:28:51,010
evidently it's difficult to get

3074
02:28:53,519 --> 02:28:51,760
permission to

3075
02:28:56,700 --> 02:28:53,529
film up there now they're very gun shy

3076
02:28:57,809 --> 02:28:56,710
or camera shy and you need to do this in

3077
02:28:59,760 --> 02:28:57,819
a proper way

3078
02:29:02,429 --> 02:28:59,770
evidently their field producer did not

3079
02:29:03,090 --> 02:29:02,439
go through the proper protocols to get

3080
02:29:04,800 --> 02:29:03,100
permission

3081
02:29:06,599 --> 02:29:04,810
I'm sure someone with the stature of

3082
02:29:08,519 --> 02:29:06,609
governor Ventura would have been able to

3083
02:29:10,170 --> 02:29:08,529
get permission if it had been done

3084
02:29:11,429 --> 02:29:10,180
correctly but you don't do it last

3085
02:29:13,590 --> 02:29:11,439
minute say hey we're gonna be up there

3086
02:29:16,139 --> 02:29:13,600
in a couple of days we want to film it

3087
02:29:19,019 --> 02:29:16,149
doesn't work that way on on reservations

3088
02:29:21,059 --> 02:29:19,029
it's also ego you think okay this is

3089
02:29:25,380 --> 02:29:21,069
Jesse Ventura screw we can just go there

3090
02:29:27,090 --> 02:29:25,390
and they'll say sure why not well no it

3091
02:29:28,710 --> 02:29:27,100
doesn't work that way especially on a

3092
02:29:30,900 --> 02:29:28,720
sovereign you know sovereign nation I

3093
02:29:33,900 --> 02:29:30,910
mean you go into a different country you

3094
02:29:36,570 --> 02:29:33,910
have to for example in New York you go

3095
02:29:39,269 --> 02:29:36,580
to the Russian mission to the UN yeah

3096
02:29:42,719 --> 02:29:39,279
you go in there and you are in Russia

3097
02:29:44,370 --> 02:29:42,729
when you step off that threshold you

3098
02:29:45,990 --> 02:29:44,380
know and we did that by the way as kids

3099
02:29:47,610 --> 02:29:46,000
who were really crazy kids this is when

3100
02:29:49,800 --> 02:29:47,620
of course we have the Soviet Union not

3101
02:29:53,820 --> 02:29:49,810
just Russia and in New York

3102
02:29:57,269 --> 02:29:53,830
late teens friend of mine and I go to

3103
02:29:59,969 --> 02:29:57,279
visit some of the missions to the UN we

3104
02:30:02,190 --> 02:29:59,979
went to the Russian mission and walked

3105
02:30:04,320 --> 02:30:02,200
in there and talked in a few minutes but

3106
02:30:06,570 --> 02:30:04,330
you know you had to think gee were in

3107
02:30:07,440 --> 02:30:06,580
another country legally could they just

3108
02:30:09,660 --> 02:30:07,450
take us prisoners

3109
02:30:11,670 --> 02:30:09,670
what were you trick-or-treating what was

3110
02:30:14,370 --> 02:30:11,680
your motivation I don't know I was just

3111
02:30:15,990 --> 02:30:14,380
curious at the material and everything I

3112
02:30:18,330 --> 02:30:16,000
had a lot of english-language material

3113
02:30:20,040 --> 02:30:18,340
about the country but my friend was I

3114
02:30:22,019 --> 02:30:20,050
don't know just trolling for something I

3115
02:30:23,250 --> 02:30:22,029
never figured out what never figured out

3116
02:30:27,179 --> 02:30:23,260
what happened to him maybe he's in

3117
02:30:29,250 --> 02:30:27,189
Russia now Jean I learned something new

3118
02:30:31,139 --> 02:30:29,260
about you every week it seems I learned

3119
02:30:34,590 --> 02:30:31,149
something about me that's new every week

3120
02:30:37,080 --> 02:30:34,600
too you know I didn't make this up you

3121
02:30:39,750 --> 02:30:37,090
know I had some bright you I wanted to

3122
02:30:42,599 --> 02:30:39,760
go up into the you know near the Dulce

3123
02:30:44,760 --> 02:30:42,609
area with a film crew into the penitent

3124
02:30:46,920 --> 02:30:44,770
take little penitent a communities up

3125
02:30:48,599 --> 02:30:46,930
there they're super superstitious

3126
02:30:50,490 --> 02:30:48,609
they're probably the most fundamentalist

3127
02:30:53,580 --> 02:30:50,500
of all Christians they flogged

3128
02:30:56,160 --> 02:30:53,590
themselves on Good Friday they'd walk

3129
02:30:58,410 --> 02:30:56,170
barefoot over cactus so very strident

3130
02:31:00,030 --> 02:30:58,420
belief system up there and very

3131
02:31:01,980 --> 02:31:00,040
superstitious and I wanted to go up with

3132
02:31:04,200 --> 02:31:01,990
a film crew on Halloween dressed as the

3133
02:31:07,139 --> 02:31:04,210
devil in trick-or-treat okay

3134
02:31:08,939 --> 02:31:07,149
I decided discretion was the better part

3135
02:31:10,590 --> 02:31:08,949
of valor and never was able to pull that

3136
02:31:15,960 --> 02:31:10,600
one off but I thought it was a good idea

3137
02:31:17,519 --> 02:31:15,970
at the time well you did anyway I don't

3138
02:31:18,870 --> 02:31:17,529
want to say anything about this you know

3139
02:31:22,080 --> 02:31:18,880
I think there's a lot about you we don't

3140
02:31:23,849 --> 02:31:22,090
know we don't want to know well maybe

3141
02:31:26,099 --> 02:31:23,859
it's not by accident I wrote a book on

3142
02:31:27,900 --> 02:31:26,109
tricksters oh I said the word oh I

3143
02:31:30,210 --> 02:31:27,910
promised I would never say that we're

3144
02:31:32,880 --> 02:31:30,220
again on the air that's the only word we

3145
02:31:35,040 --> 02:31:32,890
can't have this man the T word I said it

3146
02:31:36,990 --> 02:31:35,050
Jean I'll never live it down they're

3147
02:31:40,019 --> 02:31:37,000
gonna dog me from now until doomsday

3148
02:31:42,300 --> 02:31:40,029
I've been accused of striding out the

3149
02:31:44,160 --> 02:31:42,310
t-word every segment oh that's all you

3150
02:31:46,139 --> 02:31:44,170
ever talk about what was the last time I

3151
02:31:50,670 --> 02:31:46,149
mentioned the T word Jean on the air

3152
02:31:52,679 --> 02:31:50,680
other than 30 seconds ago a while a

3153
02:31:57,240 --> 02:31:52,689
while quite a while sure and you're not

3154
02:31:59,580 --> 02:31:57,250
doing the dreaded trickster voice I am

3155
02:32:00,809 --> 02:31:59,590
gobsmacked well I use the T word I might

3156
02:32:04,290 --> 02:32:00,819
as well try it out the trickster voice

3157
02:32:06,059 --> 02:32:04,300
to give people even more ammunition I

3158
02:32:07,349 --> 02:32:06,069
think people are thinking now this show

3159
02:32:09,960 --> 02:32:07,359
is being done about 3:00 in the morning

3160
02:32:11,280 --> 02:32:09,970
when we've all lost our senses that's

3161
02:32:14,639 --> 02:32:11,290
when we come up with weird theories

3162
02:32:16,950 --> 02:32:14,649
about UFOs that maybe UFOs are not alien

3163
02:32:19,019 --> 02:32:16,960
spacecraft but they come from other

3164
02:32:21,450 --> 02:32:19,029
dimensions this is something that Allan

3165
02:32:24,469 --> 02:32:21,460
Greenfield and I did back in the 1960s

3166
02:32:27,990 --> 02:32:24,479
you know this was New Year's Eve and we

3167
02:32:28,830 --> 02:32:28,000
didn't think about getting blasts or

3168
02:32:32,460 --> 02:32:28,840
anything like that

3169
02:32:34,469 --> 02:32:32,470
we helped elevate UFOs you know I've had

3170
02:32:37,229 --> 02:32:34,479
many a late night session with fellow

3171
02:32:38,490 --> 02:32:37,239
researchers that we solved all the

3172
02:32:39,809 --> 02:32:38,500
secrets of the universe and the

3173
02:32:42,059 --> 02:32:39,819
following morning we couldn't quite

3174
02:32:45,330 --> 02:32:42,069
remember what that was well I don't want

3175
02:32:49,530 --> 02:32:45,340
to mention what kind of substance you

3176
02:32:51,990 --> 02:32:49,540
might have consumed healthy high

3177
02:32:54,420 --> 02:32:52,000
mountain air or something that would

3178
02:32:57,660 --> 02:32:54,430
make you high in the mountain air

3179
02:33:01,229 --> 02:32:57,670
I know I've I'm too old for that sort of

3180
02:33:03,900 --> 02:33:01,239
thing I'm you know I'm my wild and

3181
02:33:08,309 --> 02:33:03,910
woolly days are far behind me gene you

3182
02:33:09,900 --> 02:33:08,319
just have wooly left yeah hmm I don't

3183
02:33:12,809 --> 02:33:09,910
know so let me ask you you've been

3184
02:33:14,790 --> 02:33:12,819
around New Mexico quite a few times do

3185
02:33:17,740 --> 02:33:14,800
you think Dulce is real there's a real

3186
02:33:20,500 --> 02:33:17,750
place a military base or something

3187
02:33:22,720 --> 02:33:20,510
underground there yeah I do and I think

3188
02:33:26,260 --> 02:33:22,730
it's a military storage facility for the

3189
02:33:27,910 --> 02:33:26,270
most noxious nuclear waste that that we

3190
02:33:29,470 --> 02:33:27,920
have that we legally can't really do

3191
02:33:30,790 --> 02:33:29,480
anything with except ship it off to

3192
02:33:32,620 --> 02:33:30,800
another country and hope that they don't

3193
02:33:34,030 --> 02:33:32,630
that they're okay with the amount of

3194
02:33:36,070 --> 02:33:34,040
money they're being paid to degradation

3195
02:33:38,400 --> 02:33:36,080
vironment that's what I think's going on

3196
02:33:43,960 --> 02:33:38,410
there I don't think I've really said it

3197
02:33:46,480 --> 02:33:43,970
so blatantly before publicly but I in my

3198
02:33:49,240 --> 02:33:46,490
investigative work back in the 90s I did

3199
02:33:51,490 --> 02:33:49,250
encounter a hardrock miner from the 50s

3200
02:33:53,950 --> 02:33:51,500
and 60s who claimed he was involved with

3201
02:33:56,980 --> 02:33:53,960
the underground demolition crews that

3202
02:33:59,380 --> 02:33:56,990
built a some sort of connecting tunnel

3203
02:34:03,430 --> 02:33:59,390
between Los Alamos and that area up

3204
02:34:05,860 --> 02:34:03,440
there along the border and what kind of

3205
02:34:08,100 --> 02:34:05,870
distance are we talking about here well

3206
02:34:11,470 --> 02:34:08,110
you're it's well over a hundred miles

3207
02:34:14,470 --> 02:34:11,480
but there he also claimed that they

3208
02:34:16,120 --> 02:34:14,480
broke into an ancient antediluvian I

3209
02:34:18,280 --> 02:34:16,130
guess for lack of a better term tunnel

3210
02:34:19,990 --> 02:34:18,290
system that was at least ten thousand

3211
02:34:24,340 --> 02:34:20,000
years old it was hewn out of solid rock

3212
02:34:27,370 --> 02:34:24,350
and perfectly squared off tunnels it

3213
02:34:31,150 --> 02:34:27,380
appeared to be obviously manufactured

3214
02:34:32,590 --> 02:34:31,160
and would totally freaked out managers

3215
02:34:34,810 --> 02:34:32,600
of the of the crews that were

3216
02:34:36,310 --> 02:34:34,820
underground there and the team that he

3217
02:34:37,960 --> 02:34:36,320
was on that discovered this was

3218
02:34:39,820 --> 02:34:37,970
immediately split up and all the members

3219
02:34:42,940 --> 02:34:39,830
were sent to different other other

3220
02:34:44,560 --> 02:34:42,950
excavation and demolition teams he was

3221
02:34:47,740 --> 02:34:44,570
an actual underground demolition expert

3222
02:34:49,540 --> 02:34:47,750
so I mean obviously it's just one

3223
02:34:51,220 --> 02:34:49,550
person's word but but you start adding

3224
02:34:53,740 --> 02:34:51,230
up the little bits and pieces that you

3225
02:34:57,190 --> 02:34:53,750
that you hear over the years and it does

3226
02:34:59,770 --> 02:34:57,200
help to paint a picture in your mind

3227
02:35:02,800 --> 02:34:59,780
about possibilities of what we're

3228
02:35:04,780 --> 02:35:02,810
dealing with and I do strongly suspect

3229
02:35:08,380 --> 02:35:04,790
that there is military presence in that

3230
02:35:11,290 --> 02:35:08,390
area and it doesn't have anything to do

3231
02:35:15,840 --> 02:35:11,300
with aliens and nightmare Hall and fats

3232
02:35:18,910 --> 02:35:15,850
of body parts and all the you know the

3233
02:35:21,430 --> 02:35:18,920
island of dr. Moreau type stuff that's

3234
02:35:24,490 --> 02:35:21,440
that's surfaced in the pop culture over

3235
02:35:26,650 --> 02:35:24,500
the past thirty years I don't give any

3236
02:35:28,120 --> 02:35:26,660
of that credence but but there is

3237
02:35:31,450 --> 02:35:28,130
something definitely going on in that

3238
02:35:33,940 --> 02:35:31,460
area it is a very spooky area just the

3239
02:35:36,160 --> 02:35:33,950
feel of the area if you go up there I've

3240
02:35:37,840 --> 02:35:36,170
been there many times and and explored

3241
02:35:40,630 --> 02:35:37,850
around that area there's just something

3242
02:35:42,640 --> 02:35:40,640
weird about the place there and you know

3243
02:35:44,620 --> 02:35:42,650
I don't consider myself to be more

3244
02:35:46,360 --> 02:35:44,630
psychic than the next person but I'll

3245
02:35:48,520 --> 02:35:46,370
tell you you have to be really numb to

3246
02:35:51,730 --> 02:35:48,530
go up there and spend some time and not

3247
02:35:53,590 --> 02:35:51,740
feel like you know just something wrong

3248
02:35:56,320 --> 02:35:53,600
about the place it's like your feeling

3249
02:35:57,969 --> 02:35:56,330
of being watched there's there's a it

3250
02:35:59,800 --> 02:35:57,979
gives you like a feeling like you just

3251
02:36:01,000 --> 02:35:59,810
it makes you squirm when you're around

3252
02:36:01,930 --> 02:36:01,010
there and I don't think that it's by

3253
02:36:04,450 --> 02:36:01,940
accident I think there's some

3254
02:36:06,570 --> 02:36:04,460
geophysical properties there which we

3255
02:36:10,210 --> 02:36:06,580
kind of touched on with norio today

3256
02:36:11,700 --> 02:36:10,220
we're forming right now and we're gonna

3257
02:36:14,560 --> 02:36:11,710
stop squirming when we tell you that

3258
02:36:16,930 --> 02:36:14,570
we're just about out of time Chris where

3259
02:36:19,300 --> 02:36:16,940
do we find more of your stuff well of

3260
02:36:20,290 --> 02:36:19,310
course I'm a moderator at forum dr.

3261
02:36:23,050 --> 02:36:20,300
Peric ask.com

3262
02:36:26,170 --> 02:36:23,060
our community forums I try to post and

3263
02:36:29,170 --> 02:36:26,180
respond to your to your posts and also I

3264
02:36:31,660 --> 02:36:29,180
have a transitional website called our

3265
02:36:34,840 --> 02:36:31,670
strange planet where you can find more

3266
02:36:37,300 --> 02:36:34,850
about my work in the field and and get

3267
02:36:40,120 --> 02:36:37,310
copies of my books and DVDs and stuff

3268
02:36:42,700 --> 02:36:40,130
that I have for sale and and of course

3269
02:36:45,700 --> 02:36:42,710
you can find me every Sunday you're on

3270
02:36:48,010 --> 02:36:45,710
the pair of cast with Eugene ok I'll go

3271
02:37:00,219 --> 02:36:48,020
for that I'm Jean Steinberg he's Chris

3272
02:37:05,269 --> 02:37:03,469
the para cast featuring Jim Steinberg

3273
02:37:08,389 --> 02:37:05,279
and Christopher o'brien

3274
02:37:12,170 --> 02:37:08,399
is a copyrighted presentation of making

3275
02:37:16,160 --> 02:37:12,180
the impossible Incorporated tune in next